Someone tell me how to count quarter note triplets!

[mjames]

title is self-explanatory...

Over the course of time I have found pieces that have quarter note triplets so I left them out :/

It's for chopin's op. 25 no. 2
just tell me how to count the notes in the left hand  against eight note triplets ...

And don't tell me to get a teacher, I live in Mozambique and there aren't many pianists here let along classically trained pianists...

[ajspiano]

that work is in 2/2.

feel the minim beats, play the 3 crotchets within the overall minim pulse. As if it were 6 quavers in a 6/8 bar.

once you've got that down, add the right hand and be sure to (subtly) accent the beat the beginning of each group of 3 quavers (crotchet pulses) offset against the LHs minim pulses, while in actual time there will be 2 rh quavers for every LH crochet. Its like a complicated 2 vs 3 polyrhythm.

if you haven't done 2 vs 3 before consider doing something else first. this work has a complex rhythmic structure - sone background with polyrhythms is wise. Counting isn't really a good move here. This may even perhaps have been written to force you out of counting and into the ability to feel 2 independent rhythms.

[mjames]

I get it now...
I've done 2v3 before I just don't know how count quarter note truplets lol ;(
I know the etude is extremely difficult, I just get a kick from playing challenging things...hope it works out
Thanks man, I'm going to have some with it now 

[ajspiano]

If you have real trouble you can try the two kinds of variants shown below, or some others of your own choosing (filled through longer passages) - ensuring you maintain the correct fingering for as if you were playing all of it.



I wasn't saying don't play the etude, more like don't lose sight of the polyrhythmic nature of the piece. Its a bit easy to be more focused on just getting the tempo up, and feel the quavers in 2's rather than 3's, and consequently miss the real musical value here.

..in fact I had a lengthy argument with someone here once about that piece who contended that there is no poly-rhythm even present.

The work is technically hard enough that if you are not already at least a little comfortable with the rhythmic element its going to go way over your head because you'll be too busy focused on just getting the notes together and up to tempo to be thinking about 2 independent rhythms

[j_menz]

There are 4 "norrmal" quarter notes to the bar. When they are, as here, triplet quarter notes you need to fit 3 of them into the space of 2. If you have done 2v3 polyrhytms, you will know how that works.  The strong beat is on the first quarter note (as marked) with a slightly weaker one on the fourth in the bar. The feel is ONE two three one two three.

The top line is four quarter notes, with each quarter note being "replaced" with a tripletised 8th note, so ONE two three, one two three, one two three, one two three.

You will see that the notes line up, but the accents mostly do not (they do at the start and again in the middle, but nowhere else). The challenge/purpose of the etude is to make sure that each line is correctly accented - ie, played with the correct rhythm.

And AJ is correct that the goal is to feel the two rhythms independently. And indeed, it is probably essential to do so.

[mjames]

Again, thank you so much guys.

[sammy248]

Just an additional suggestion on actually counting quarter note triplets -- start counting 8th note triplets witha "duh" sound for each note, for a few measures, like this:

duh-duh-duh|duh-duh-duh|duh-duh-duh|duh-duh-duh      etc.

Tap your foot at the beginning of each new beat.

Now, quarter note triplets can be thought of as eighth note triplets where every pair of notes is tied together --   So, to transition from counting 8th note triplets to quarter note triplets, just replace every 2nd "duh" by holding the previous syllable (because it is now being tied to the previous note), like this: 

duhuh-duh|uh-duhuh|-duhuh-duh|uh-duhuh     

duhuh doesn't sound like two syllables, it basically sounds like "duh", it is just being held longer

(The | in the previous examples is representing each new beat, and the - is representing each new syllable)

Hopefully this is helpful to you.  Just keep starting with the 8th note triplets, and try transitioning to counting quarter note triplets, until it becomes more comfortable. (don't try to immediately do this with the etude you're playing -- I'd suggest first getting comfortable counting q note triplets, then come back to the piece)