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left handed student (Read 2903 times)

Offline drazh

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left handed student
« on: July 16, 2013, 10:58:49 AM »
Hi
do you ask your students whether they are right handed or left Handed .because pianos are designed for right handed people.

Offline pianoman53

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #1 on: July 16, 2013, 11:05:55 AM »
Hi
do you ask your students whether they are right handed or left Handed .because pianos are designed for right handed people.
Doesn't really matter, does it? "Hi.. Oh you're left handed... riiight, uhm... Maybe you shouldn't play piano, you know, since you have to play most stuff with your right hand.."

Offline dima_ogorodnikov

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #2 on: July 16, 2013, 11:17:21 AM »
-
No amount of how-to information is going to work if you have the wrong mindset, the wrong guiding philosophies. Avoid losers like the plague, and gather with and learn from winners only.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 02:18:26 PM »
It doesn't matter whether you're right or left handed.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline j_menz

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #4 on: July 16, 2013, 11:10:15 PM »
How on earth is a piano a right (or left) handed instrument?  :o
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline iansinclair

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 11:48:11 PM »
How on earth is a piano a right (or left) handed instrument?  :o
Beats me.  I'd never thought of it one way or the other... it is surprising how many instruments favour the left hand, though -- all the strings (all the fingering is in the left hand), french horns... woodwinds require alarming dexterity in both hands... and so on.

So I should think that, for piano, if anything it would be helpful...
Ian

Offline outin

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 04:43:38 AM »
How on earth is a piano a right (or left) handed instrument?  :o

Obviously piano is not. Maybe what he means is that much of piano music is written in a way that the right hand does more work. If the keyboard was turned around, the left hand should do all that :)

Offline j_menz

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 04:54:00 AM »
much of piano music is written in a way that the right hand does more work.

That is probably true for many beginner pieces. It is rarely true later on.

That being the case, it is the pedagogues that are assuming handedness, rather than the instrument implying it.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline outin

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 05:27:24 AM »
That is probably true for many beginner pieces. It is rarely true later on.

That being the case, it is the pedagogues that are assuming handedness, rather than the instrument implying it.

Yes, it is mainly true in simpler music, not fugues  ;)
Though in much of the music written for piano the melody is played on the higher notes. Also I haven't seen that much ornamentation on the left hand (except in the Rameau pieces I have been playing and occasionally in others).

Anyway, I think in many cases when an adult starts learning the piano, they have used the dominant hand for many years in an "unpianistic" way. So the non-dominant hand may actually be more adaptable to piano in the beginning. It was for me, I can always rely on my left :)

Offline j_menz

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 05:42:24 AM »
I can always rely on my left :)

I'll remember that, should we ever come to blows.  ;)
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline outin

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #10 on: July 17, 2013, 06:00:24 AM »
I'll remember that, should we ever come to blows.  ;)

I'm glad I googled that idiom  ;D
I think I shouldn't push it too much...

Offline muleski

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #11 on: July 17, 2013, 09:32:28 AM »
This thread has just (I think) answered my own question as to why I often watch my left hand playing, but rarely the right.  I'm right handed & because of that it is obviously more dexterous, whereas my left.. requires more concentration!  Is the opposite true of left handed players I wonder?

Offline drazh

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #12 on: July 17, 2013, 01:05:26 PM »
Doesn't really matter, does it? "Hi.. Oh you're left handed... riiight, uhm... Maybe you shouldn't play piano, you know, since you have to play most stuff with your right hand.."
think positively
if you have a left handed student you may advise him he should work harder than right handed students so not to be disappointed for slow progress

Offline ajspiano

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #13 on: July 17, 2013, 02:14:17 PM »
think positively
if you have a left handed student you may advise him he should work harder than right handed students so not to be disappointed for slow progress

why would a left handed student's progress be slower than that of a right handed student?

Offline timothy42b

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #14 on: July 17, 2013, 04:47:41 PM »
why would a left handed student's progress be slower than that of a right handed student?

In fact their progress needs to be faster than a right handed student, because they don't have as much time.  Left handers hardly ever live past 85.

Tim

Offline awesom_o

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #15 on: July 17, 2013, 05:03:50 PM »
Aren't most great pianists left handed or at least ambidextrous?

Isn't piano designed for people who are equally skilled with both hands?

Isn't that the main difference between a student-level pianist and a professional-level pianist?

Most piano students have one hand that is noticeably stronger or more skilled than the other?

Most professional pianists are so skilled, you can hardly tell what hand is playing what, and both hands are capable of playing the full range in terms of expression and velocity?

Offline timothy42b

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #16 on: July 17, 2013, 07:57:01 PM »
Aren't most great pianists left handed or at least ambidextrous?


No.  Most great pianists have a strong hand preference, and most of those with a strong preference are right handed. 

Great pianists have learned to use both hands well, but remain naturally right handed.

The proper question is whether the percentage of great pianists who are left handed is greater or less than the percentage of left handers in the general population.

I don't know the answer but for several reasons suspect it is less.

Umm, do you know about polar bears?   
Tim

Offline awesom_o

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #17 on: July 17, 2013, 09:00:42 PM »
Actually, left-handedness is a blessing, especially in very difficult music. The right side of the brain (that controls the left hand) processes 'imaginative' thought such as feeling, art, intuition, etc. Rachmaninoff was left-handed and so were other famous composers/pianists (Beethoven, Ravel for example). If you are right-handed, you will need to work VERY hard on your left hand anyway to become a successful pianist.


 :)

Offline ranniks

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #18 on: July 17, 2013, 09:09:28 PM »
Actually, left-handedness is a blessing, especially in very difficult music. The right side of the brain (that controls the left hand) processes 'imaginative' thought such as feeling, art, intuition, etc. Rachmaninoff was left-handed and so were other famous composers/pianists (Beethoven, Ravel for example). If you are right-handed, you will need to work VERY hard on your left hand anyway to become a successful pianist.

Correct, but the same applies to left handed people for their right hand.

Offline awesom_o

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #19 on: July 17, 2013, 09:17:43 PM »
You have to work very hard in music no matter what hand you use to hold a pair of scissors, yes.

Offline ajspiano

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #20 on: July 17, 2013, 09:42:47 PM »
As s right hander.. I still found chopin 10/1 to be atleast a mild challenge.. ;D

nor do I consider the RH to present as being any easier than the LH in 25/12.

Offline j_menz

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #21 on: July 17, 2013, 11:06:29 PM »
I'm a right hander, but at the piano there are some things that my LH is better at than my right, and some things my RH is better at than my left.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #22 on: July 17, 2013, 11:32:52 PM »
I'm a right hander, but at the piano there are some things that my LH is better at than my right, and some things my RH is better at than my left.

Agreed, it is also noted that comparatively to the average right handed (or left handed) non-pianist my LH is arguably INCREDIBLY dexterous, but it may also be noted that my LH handwriting is still completely illegible and feels very awkward .. I can't throw with my left either.

I also doubt I've worked any harder on my LH than my RH to gain similar competencies at the piano. The movements required were beyond my "natural" range of competency in both cases, significantly enough that beyond the most basic material I don't feel my RH had any clear advantage.

Offline drazh

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #23 on: July 18, 2013, 03:30:47 AM »
You have to work very hard in music no matter what hand you use to hold a pair of scissors, yes.
how can you cut  with scissor with left hand with usual technic  it is impossible. Try it

Offline awesom_o

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #24 on: July 18, 2013, 04:57:18 AM »
Agreed, it is also noted that comparatively to the average right handed (or left handed) non-pianist my LH is arguably INCREDIBLY dexterous, but it may also be noted that my LH handwriting is still completely illegible and feels very awkward .. I can't throw with my left either.

I also doubt I've worked any harder on my LH than my RH to gain similar competencies at the piano. The movements required were beyond my "natural" range of competency in both cases, significantly enough that beyond the most basic material I don't feel my RH had any clear advantage.

IMO, your piano skills will improve significantly if you learn all of these other non-musical activities with your LH. I can write with both hands and throw with both hands (I juggle quite a bit). Developing both hands in various creative non-musical ways helped me at the keyboard so much!

Offline ajspiano

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #25 on: July 18, 2013, 05:06:58 AM »
IMO, your piano skills will improve significantly if you learn all of these other non-musical activities with your LH. I can write with both hands and throw with both hands (I juggle quite a bit). Developing both hands in various creative non-musical ways helped me at the keyboard so much!

I wouldn't doubt that, I can actually juggle quite well.. and as a relatively competent guitarist and drummer my LH has got some other skills going for it which may be a factor in piano playing. Infact drumming is definately a factor, I have a student who's a novice pianist but keen drummer who makes technical leaps at quite a rate when i make use of drumming analogies, and how to apply certain arm movements/sensations that he understands from drumming.

Equally, time spent playing bass - in particular "slap" bass means that some of my rotational type motions at the piano are significantly more developed in the RH than in the left..

Offline awesom_o

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #26 on: July 18, 2013, 05:12:26 AM »
Sounds like some good teaching there! Analogies are a gift that teachers need! I can't play a drum kit to save my life!

How well can you juggle?

Offline ajspiano

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #27 on: July 18, 2013, 05:20:59 AM »
Sounds like some good teaching there! Analogies are a gift that teachers need! I can't play a drum kit to save my life!
Sometime I wonder how much the coordination of the feet there impacted my use of the pianos pedals, which I've never really had to work hard to use with accuracy at all. (at a contrast to my students who often find the syncopated pedal timing to be quite difficult at first)

Quote
How well can you juggle?
I'm no circus performer, I can manage 3 balls consistently, and well enough to do some weird crap like lift up my legs and throw them underneath... or turn around while I've thrown them up higher in the air etc. etc.

Offline dima_ogorodnikov

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #28 on: July 18, 2013, 05:42:18 AM »
-
No amount of how-to information is going to work if you have the wrong mindset, the wrong guiding philosophies. Avoid losers like the plague, and gather with and learn from winners only.

Offline drazh

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #29 on: July 19, 2013, 07:47:33 PM »
Actually, left-handedness is a blessing, especially in very difficult music. The right side of the brain (that controls the left hand) processes 'imaginative' thought such as feeling, art, intuition, etc. Rachmaninoff was left-handed and so were other famous composers/pianists (Beethoven, Ravel for example).
really?

Offline timothy42b

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #30 on: July 21, 2013, 03:20:01 AM »
I can manage 3 balls consistently, and well enough to do some weird crap like lift up my legs and throw them underneath... or turn around while I've thrown them up higher in the air etc. etc.

I heard Sergei Ignatov (famous Russian circus juggler) speak at an IJA convention.

He said there was a level everyone could achieve with effort, but beyond that you had to be born with talent.

That point that everyone could reach?   8 balls. 

don't sell yourself short.
Tim

Offline awesom_o

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #31 on: July 21, 2013, 12:40:20 PM »
I've heard of 5 as being the standard everyone is capable of achieving with a bit of patience. I can keep five up for about a minute when I'm warmed up. The best jugglers in the world can keep five in the air without dropping for 45 min or an hour.

I'm working on 6 right now which is actually in its most basic form 3 in both hands simultaneously.
8 is 4 in each hand simultaneously-very challenging indeed. 7 stands in between 6 and 8 and feels and looks much like a taller, faster 5.

I teach all of my piano students juggling in addition to their musical studies.

Offline ajspiano

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #32 on: July 21, 2013, 11:26:06 PM »
That point that everyone could reach?   8 balls. 

don't sell yourself short.

Quote
I've heard of 5 as being the standard everyone is capable of achieving with a bit of patience.

Haha, 8 is a bit much, don't know that I could stomach putting in the time to achieve that.. 4 and 5 seems very approachable though. I don't honestly get any real satisfaction or enjoyment out of it though so its never really occurred to me to be bothered working on it any more - I learnt to do 3 - which is obviously not that hard - when I was a kid, maybe 15 years ago. I only said I can juggle "quite well" since in my experience not a whole lot of people can manage 3, and I know a few adults that can barely catch 1 ball, once.

Quote
I teach all of my piano students juggling in addition to their musical studies.
So what brought you to decide to do that? did you have a teacher that did so or is it your own idea? Can you quantify the impact its had on any of your students?

Offline awesom_o

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Re: left handed student
«Reply #33 on: July 22, 2013, 03:23:00 PM »
Juggling helps us develop inter-limb coordination, ambidexterity, fine-motor and gross-motor  control, rhythmic timing, body-mind awareness, mental focus, spacial awareness, self-discipline,  proprioception...... basically all kinds of crazy power. 

I'll leave it up to your imagination as to how those qualities could relate to piano-playing :)

None of my students practice enough, though. Juggling is frowned upon in certain circles:(


because it is so AWESOME!