Method? what method?

[lorcar]

hello everyone
first post here.

I am 38yo here, started again after a 25y+ iatus, last october i rented a yamaha silent and found a school.
I got my little satisfactions, but given the fact I am not that young and had alrady a life set, i came the hard way to realize how hard is the path I chose in terms of things you must give up.

What kills me is the fact that "repetition" seems to be the solution.
Just repeat. And if you dont think it works, repeat again. Repeat. Repeat.
To be honest, I find it a bit monkey-style. Repeat, be faithful, until you get it right.
I think it's silly. There should be a method to make the efforts and time spent studying most effective and most efficient, like in every other human field.
The school is now closed for the summer break, and I am struggling on my own with how to use the pedal on Chopin Waltz num 10, 69, 2...omg, so difficult for me.
But at least I get the finger on the right keys (i am talking first two pages only). How did i do it? repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat

i feel stupid. I am loosing interest in it. I am missing the beauty and the pleasure of it.
I am not saying I dont want to study, nor I dont want to spend hours bleeding on the bench. I am just asking for a method, a smart/rational/intelligent way to study, something which has been proven to work. Do you guys have a method?
Any idea? any suggested reading? is Chang' book a method? anything worth online?

thanks really a lot in advance

[j_menz]

What kills me is the fact that "repetition" seems to be the solution.
Just repeat. And if you dont think it works, repeat again. Repeat. Repeat.
To be honest, I find it a bit monkey-style. Repeat, be faithful, until you get it right.

Repetition is part of it, but the order is wrong. Get it right first, then repeat.

What that means is you need to sort out fingering, and play slowly. Slowly enough that you do not make mistakes. Then you repeat until it's drummed into your fingers. Then you gradually speed up, making sure that you are in full control (including dynamics - volume) and not making mistakes. In time, you have it at (and potentially faster than) needed.

That will take less time then you might think, and involve much less repetition.

Just "repeat until it comes right" will never work - what you wind up repeating are your mistakes, and that is also what you will end up learning.

[lorcar]

thanks a lot.
ANy book you'd recommend? Chang? others? I just need a method, or someone telling me how to study proficiently. Hopefully the new teacher in september will help.

but what about memorizing? I feel that after playing a piece a lot, my hands are able to go on their own, but if you were to ask me which tone/key I am playing, I wouldnt know.
How do you really memorize a piece? singing it? I guess my question is: once you know a piece by hearth, are you supposedly also able to "sing" it, meaning knowing exactly which notes go where? I feel I get mechanical memory, but no more than that

[ajspiano]

chang is one good resource, however there are many. Dig around for posts by bernhard here, he wrote much on the topic. you may also like to look into graham fitch's "practicing the piano".

memory is perhaps multidimensional, mechanical motor memory being one element. You can also visually remember the score, visually remember the look of your hands playing it, remember the sound etc. etc. and ultimately create mental links between the different approaches.

[bronnestam]

I recommend both Chang and Graham. The latter gives a famous quote from Liszt (at least it is said to be Liszt): "Think ten times, play once". 

This means that mindless repetition is not just exhausting and boring, it also helps to remove your true interest in the piece (as you have noticed) and most of all: you might "learn" to make mistakes, over and over again, and every time you repeat these mistakes, you learn them even harder until they are rock solid!

Both Chang and Graham recommends that you don't play the whole piece over and over again (making the same stupid mistake over and over again in bar 3, 12, 21, 22 and 44 ...) but that you concentrate all your practice to the parts where you really have trouble. This means you must analyze: where, exactly, does it go wrong? Then you shold play exactly that part, including one note before and one note after the "error spot".

And, with reference to the quote above, BEFORE you start moving your fingers, you should plan the whole operation in your head. Every finger movement, and most of all: HOW IT SHOULD SOUND. Hear the section in your head, then play it for real. Then think again: did it sound like I wanted? (Then do this again, and again, and after three successful attempts you can move on with something else.) If not, analyze again - what went wrong, what can I do about it?

So, play less and analyze/plan more. That will save your nerves.

You can play very slow if you like, so slow that you have absolute control and make no mistakes. Or you can play very, very short sections at fast speed, so short that you probably will get it right as well.
You MUST be able to play the section without errors with hand separated before you try to play with hands together.

Graham also recommends a method with "planned stops" which I have found extremely effective: You make a "pause mark" with a pencil in the notes, RIGHT BEFORE the place where it "always goes wrong". (I simply draw a line) Then you happily play up to that mark. Then pause. Think, rearrange your fingers, make sure it will be right, go on until you have passed the difficult spot.

Then do it all again. After a few attempts, move the pause so that it includes the "faulty note", which should be right by now, and then make a new pause. After a few attempts, where you gradually shorten the pause, you should be able to play it all without making the mistake anymore, and you can erase your pencil line.

 

[indianajo]

Uh, yeah. Scan through one hand at a time, find the hard parts, repeat those parts really slowly and perfectly until you have it perfect, then speed up. then put hands together.  when you can do the whole piece hands together perfectly slowly, then you can speed the whole piece up. 
I learned on John W. Schaum and Edna Mae Berman books: they still sell them in New Albany I saw last year.  At grade 5 my teacher started giving me individual pieces. 
As far as the hands (lower brain) memorizing the piece, that is the way I do it. At some point looking at the page is not interesting, my gaze wanders. When that happens I have memorized it.  Learning the chord structure and improvising off of that is a completely different skill, one I have only started in my sixties.  chord theory was a sort of intellectual exercise the way my teacher taught it, unrelated to the pieces I was learning.  I backed into playing by ear from guitar, since they read only the chords (tab) most of the time.  My finger skin is too soft for guitar, but I began to understand some chord theory in pop songs after that year,  and it is having some influence on how I learn pop songs now.  Maybe I'll be able to improv on the chart some day: way more practical than learning Thalberg pieces IMHO.