czerny, chuan for an amateur player

[kekewak]

I'm no fan of lazyness, so I do apologize for this post, I know probably all i need to know about this authors is already in the forum, but I just don't seem to find the proper answer, since every post goes into a deep debate over hanon and czerny and a ton of things i dont know.

First of all, it's a pleasure being in this Forum and meeting you all, my name is pablo and I'm from Chile, i'm actually on my first year of my medicine studies, I'm 18 years old and i play piano since i was 16, I'm no great player since i spend most of my time doing another stuff, mostly studying to be a succesful doctor (and before that to enter into the best university here), probably the hardest song i've played until know is the hearts ask pleasure first by michael nyman. With some fellow partners we formed a band, we play mostly for fun and I love it, but it's taking me too much time to learn the songs, and I dont have that much time. So I need to become a better pianist.

I can read sheets, but i can't play and read, specially left hand.
I can improvise into a very basic level (major scales with 4/4 time measures :/)
I mostly learn from memory

I'm making this post so long and i haven't even asked my questions, i'm sorry, i'll go straight into the question.

I've read czerny is a great piano teacher, I found this page https://pianoexercises.org/exercises/czerny/ with a lot of interesting pdfs, but it is a LOT of interesting pdfs, i dont know where to begin.
I also heard that the Book from Chuan Chang "fundamentals of piano method" is also great to learn piano.

I'm really lost in where should i start, I would be so happy if someone could clear my mind

[ajspiano]

czerny was a great teacher,  he was from a different time though..   his studies would no doubt benefit you as a pianist but you may find them somewhat dull to play, and there are plenty of valid alternatives. I'm actually not sure what exactly to recommend for you from your post as I get the impression that you want to improve so you can better fit into your band..

so my question to you is what music do you play in your band? and how do you go about learning it exactly? sheet music? by ear? chord symbols or full notation?

changs book is about how to practice effectively to maximize your learning, its a good resource. I suggest you read it and test out the different ideas on some of the music you are trying to learn already.

[kekewak]

Hello and thanks you for the reply, not only I want to fit better in the band, but also in my personal piano playing

We usually play rock, maybe a little bit of progressive, i found myself many times creating my own arrangements since there are many song without piano or without an online sheet.

I will try to explain the best i can what i actually want, probably the first thing is learning to learn faster, I really want to maximize my time and use it the best I can, and i believe i can do this by practicing at technique and speed, as it could help knowing a little bit more about musical theory ( but i dont want to get out of topic, this thread is about my playing, not about my knowledge about music even if they go hand in hand).

I have always wanted to play (I dont know how it's named) those progression in the same chord, and you go ascending or descending really fast, like in moonlight sonata 3rd movement,  i would also love to learn to read and play at the same time, i would love to know how to improvise at a more advanced and complete level, make my fingers faster, specially on the tiny weak ones (4,5)

something i always think is that i dont want to repeat the sames always, like when playing the chorus, "oh i play the base chord like along with the melody", I want to play the " base chord, and add emotion with my left hand, like moving up and down in the chord, maybe add some jazzy style, or bluesie, and with my right hand play the melody, but add new thing to hit, like playing some parts in chords, add some high notes with lesser volume so i don't disrupt the melody but i can still add more things"

I find it kinda hard to express how i want to play, since my main lenguage isn't english and i've never learnt anything about music, so i can't name the things i want to learn.

I've never worked my technique, i have only learnt some songs, and have a basic knowledge about a major scale.

If it serves as example, there is this song called "hollow years" (in my opinion, a great song), and their own pianist rearranged it into this:

he lays all his emotion into the song, i wish i could do the same with my arrangements, but they just sound so easy and empty, like a beginner playing a song.

Sorry again for the long post, i'm really struggling to explain myself, and thanks a lot

[ajspiano]

Learning to quickly create (and play) your own arrangements in a way that will allow you to fit in with a band is a long term learning task.

However, -

Get to know ALL the major scales (there are 12 - one for every different key within an octave) as a starting point.

You will also want to look at the primary chords, these are the 3 most commonly used chords within a key. In C major, it is C major, F major and G major. Practice playing through these chords in different ways (rhythms, speed, different voicings for each chord etc)

You can work them out in a different key like this:
Start with the scale (i'll use G major for an example)

G A B C D E F# G A B C... take the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes beginning from G

G B D - G major, this is the first primary chord in the key of G major.

Next start on the 4th note of the scale and take the 1st 3rd and 5th notes.

C E G, this is the second one, sometimes we refer to is as an IV chord, or subdominant chord because it begins on the 4th note of the original scale.

Next start on the 5th note of the scale and take the 1st 3rd and 5th notes.

D F# A, this is the third one, sometimes we refer to is as a V chord, or dominant chord because it begins on the 5th note of the original scale.

Get to know these in all keys.

...............

I have always wanted to play (I dont know how it's named) those progression in the same chord, and you go ascending or descending really fast, like in moonlight sonata 3rd movement

You're talking about broken chords or arpeggios, google them, see what you find for some different things to practice.

something i always think is that i dont want to repeat the sames always, like when playing the chorus, "oh i play the base chord like along with the melody", I want to play the " base chord, and add emotion with my left hand, like moving up and down in the chord, maybe add some jazzy style, or bluesie, and with my right hand play the melody, but add new thing to hit, like playing some parts in chords, add some high notes with lesser volume so i don't disrupt the melody but i can still add more things"

I just googled "chord voicings for piano"
This was the top result (https://jazzadvice.com/piano-basics-necessary-skills-for-the-non-pianist/)- there is some good advice there for starting to understand how to jazz things up a bit. Dig around in some other sites and see what you come up with. Jazz voicings may not be the most appropriate.

Listen to lots of pop/rock piano music, try to work out by ear what they are doing and copy it. If you find that too hard (the working it out by ear) your next best option(s) are to get a teacher and/or buy some sheet music and use those as the basis for experiementation in other music. As in, if your sheet music shows a C chord, and its left hand plays CGE right hand DEGB, (a c major 9th) then you can try copying that and building it into what you can create yourself in that and other keys.

i would also love to learn to read and play at the same time, i would love to know how to improvise at a more advanced and complete level, make my fingers faster, specially on the tiny weak ones (4,5)

To you this may seem almost like going in the wrong direction in some aspects at first, but I strongly suggest you play some Bach. Start with the "anna magdelena note book" (you can find it at IMSLP.org) and beyond that look at the "15 two part inventions". You will have improved immeasurably if you complete the majority of the pieces you will find in those two sets alone.

[kekewak]

I will take you advice, thanks you a lot.

However i would still like to ask you if there is any czerny excercise that will help me improve my overall piano playing and technique, as well as the speed, a very close friend told me that czerny excercises is so much good for every piano player of every style and level..

Thanks again, this is such a friendly forum

[awesom_o]

Yes, Czerny is excellent for pianists of all levels! From absolute beginner through to advanced virtuoso! Czerny was probably the best piano teacher of all time. He was certainly one of the wealthiest. This has brought his reputation in to question over the years, but it is important to note that he taught probably the greatest pianist of all time, Franz Liszt, so he obviously knew a thing or two.

His method of teaching and the method of study that he intended for his works is often misunderstood, however, and this misunderstanding is also the reason Czerny's reputation is often questioned.

Czerny did not intend his studies to be memorized individually, looking down at the hands, building speed up with a metronome gradually, etc....the 'usual' practice methods that many piano teachers insist upon, and sadly, produce little in the way of genuine results.

In order to understand Czerny's methods, which Czerny himself learned from his teacher, Beethoven, we should read Czerny's short book, 'Letters to a Young Lady on the Art of Playing the Pianoforte'.

Czerny intended the student to play his studies at sight, in tempo, without looking down at the hands and the keyboard. If you look at your Czerny book and this seems like a complete impossibility, then you have a book which is far too advanced for your level.

First Instruction in Piano Playing would be a good place to start, rather than, say, The School of Velocity.

Czerny is used by pianists of all levels and all styles! Oscar Peterson used to swear by Czerny and has his students work on his studies, in addition to Bach, which is also good.

[kekewak]

woha, I guess now is very important for me to learn sight reading and playing, thank you for your help everyone i will begin my studies with easy pieces, like the ones ajspiano recommended me to practice my sheet reading, as well as study a little bit of muscal theory, after i get better at this i will start with some czerny excercises (I noticed school of velocity is incredibly hard, I guess I'll read those wich include the word begginner on it) and arpeggios excersises.

Thanks again