Are Czerny Etudes fundamental for a good technique?

[senanserat]

Hello! 

I will start with some background, I have been playing for perhaps 8 months now. And I really want to becomes a good player, my teacher says that we should revise Czerny's etudes. Namely the School of Velocity and then Dexterity.

I already learned the first one Op. 299 No.1 and I am working on playing it smoothly and as musically as possible, next I am going for the No.2 of the same Op. to work some left hand velocity.

Because of the pieces I want to learn at the moment my teacher suggest to hop between etudes that cover arpeggios, broken octaves and all kind of other fun leaps. He also puts a lot of faith in them.

While I enjoy the challenge I admit its a bit taxing, me having never played anything like this before, so my question is.

Are this etudes really, as my teacher puts it, the key to flawless technique (not dynamics) ? I am a bit of a late starter but I like to think that with dedication in a couple of years I may catch up.

So TL;DR would be: Are Czerny's etudes (Op.299 in this specific case) really useful? Like REALLY? Because I have heard that technique can be developed with repertoire as well. Then again I need every tool and advantage possible so... 

[j_menz]

Good technique includes dynamics.

Czerny's studies, as part of a balanced diet, won't hurt you and may even do you some good.

You can get the same from repertoire, but you can get vitamin C from an orange or a pill. Czerny is the pill.

[ajspiano]

Are this etudes really, as my teacher puts it, the key to flawless technique (not dynamics) ? I am a bit of a late starter but I like to think that with dedication in a couple of years I may catch up.

Since the absolute pinnacles of technical display came chronologically after czerny with the romantic giants, who's repertoire is considerably more difficult than czerny's studies...

..I would suggest that "the key to flawless technique" is a bit of an overstatement.

Czerny's studies do however reflect a good, but not compulsory, technical preparation for more advanced work, and as j_menz mentions - technique includes dynamics, in fact the 2 are practically inseparable.

[dima_76557]

Are Czerny Etudes fundamental for a good technique?

A question that has been asked here a hundred times already (please use the search function), but from what I read, I can only conclude that the ones who shout the loudest that Czerny etudes are crap and entirely unnecessary are the ones who can't do them up to standards.

And, of course, you can ruin your hands with virtually ANYTHING. It really doesn't make a difference whether you get tendonitis from Czerny etudes or from works of art you are not ready for by any other good composer. The underlying TECHNIQUE (natural usage of your body's resources) should be there anyway. I would say that Czerny, with his light-weight musical statements, does not distract your attention so much from the task at hand, so they are ideal if you want to learn something about piano technique. Hope that answers your question?

[maitea]

I also find the fact that your teacher wants to hop between them to cover the main aspects of piano technique quite promising. Getting an overview of the main important areas of piano playing as soon as possible can be crucial for later starters.

Commit yourself to the music they have in themselves (there is something there ) and make the most out of it. You can always buy books one or two grades below your level and play for yourself if it gets "too much" with Mr C. Good luck!

[lojay]

No.

A pianist I know who can play pretty much anything has mentioned that she never touched Hanon/Czerny.

I've never studied Czerny (and probably went out of my way to avoid studying Czerny and works like Czerny) and have improved my technique by mainly studying repertoire.  To be honest though, I've just looked at the score of op. 299 and I'm probably going to study it.  A lot of op. 299 will be easily sight readable in tempo for me, but the mechanical aspects that I'll pick up will definitely translate when I'm learning repertoire I care to learn. There are also a few sections that I will probably have problems with so they'll be very good to study.

The funny thing is, I would have dismissed anything like Czerny or Hanon even just a month ago.

TLDR Version:
You don't need Czerny op. 299 to develop good technique, but a thorough study of them will probably take your playing to a new level.

[blazekenny]

Well, for example, Liszt b minor sonata is technically basically op. 740 by Czerny mixed together...

[louispodesta]

Good technique includes dynamics.

Czerny's studies, as part of a balanced diet, won't hurt you and may even do you some good.

You can get the same from repertoire, but you can get vitamin C from an orange or a pill. Czerny is the pill.

Very well put.  Earl Wild, who strongly recommended against the daily practice of scales and arpeggios to build technique, made an exception for the Czerny Studies.  So, you can pretend that these are just additional pieces in your repertoire that you use to build your facility.

[senanserat]

Most interesting plethora of opinion, while I realize it may have been asked before I know opinion change (refer to Mr.Lojay for example) I am also glad to find that my teacher is competent

Now...now I just have to learn to appreciate Czerny, while not dry scales and arpeggios I find it a bit lacking in musicality but I won't whine too much about it.

[j_menz]

Now...now I just have to learn to appreciate Czerny

Try some of his actual compositions. You may well be pleasantly surprised.

[amelialw]

they are beneficial; pretty important if you want to bring your playing to a certain level

[senanserat]

Try some of his actual compositions. You may well be pleasantly surprised.

I think I will check them tonight and pick something for my level. not a beginner but not quite a advanced intermediate...if that even makes sense. Thing is I am a bit picky >.>

[j_menz]

I think I will check them tonight and pick something for my level. not a beginner but not quite a advanced intermediate...if that even makes sense. Thing is I am a bit picky >.>

You're in luck, then. There are a LOT to choose from.

[senanserat]

You're in luck, then. There are a LOT to choose from.

Holy Arpeggios...I just saw the list and that's quite incredible just seeing how much there is boost my respect for the man. Also look at that posture, he was the real deal



Ugh...it will take ages to sort out and never mind find an appropriate piece, well onward I guess XD they aren't going to be listen by themselves.

[maitea]

Very well put.  Earl Wild, who strongly recommended against the daily practice of scales and arpeggios to build technique, made an exception for the Czerny Studies.  So, you can pretend that these are just additional pieces in your repertoire that you use to build your facility.

For me this goes against itself a bit.. Why shouldn't scales and arpeggios be played musically?

Scales and arpeggios should be practice with shape, line, in piano, forte, mp, mf, with crescendo, diminuendo, an accelerando, a rallentado. Staccatto, legato (same articulation in both hands, or different) etc etc... they are music!