Help with Chopin's variation

[gn622]

Hello everyone

I'm a bit confused about Chopin's la ci darem variations.
near the end of bar 4 of the brillante variation(the first one) you have to play a A and F note but it doesn't seem right to play them alone,  i think they should be combined with the very next notes to make a bigger chord?

Can someone please take a look at the sheet and help me please? (sorry my english is terrible)

[j_menz]

Are you playing the piano part of the full orchestral version?  If so, I can't see where you mean. The A-F  at the point you reference has a C-D-F triplet going on as well in the RH.

If you are playing another version (solo transcription or whatever) you'll need to specify which.

[gn622]

https://ia600506.us.archive.org/5/items/Cantorion_sheet_music_collection_3/ed635e47845d9195333b9ae0addfb873.pdf#track_/download/2097/ed635e47845d9195333b9ae0addfb873/Variations%20on%20%2526quot%3BLa%20ci%20darem%20la%20mano%2526quot%3B%20Piano%20Solo%20-%20Piano.pdf

It's page 7 in this link, the area im talking about is in the fourth bar, it  has the fingering 2 3.

It seems wrong to play A F and then play the triplets (triplets are the three notes?) or is there something about the rhythm im not getting?

[j_menz]

OK, that 32 fingering is just plain weird - ignore it. 

The first C of the triplet falls at the same time as the A and F.  It's badly scored, and the fingering given is impossible for that, but that's the only way it makes sense to me - particularly given the triplets in the bass as well.

[gn622]

Thanks a lot! i knew something wasn't right, thanks again 

[j_menz]

Oh, and earlier in the bar, those dotted quaver/semiquaver things that line up with the triplets are played so that the dotted quaver lasts for two of the triplets and the semiquaver falls with the third triplet.

[gn622]

Yeah that's how i'm doing it 

[lojay]

How have I never heard of this piece?  It's absolutely awesome!

Since I was unfamiliar with it, I clicked the link to the pdf and when I saw op. 2 I thought to myself, "Oh a piece Chopin probably composed when he was a student.  Probably a waste of time to even bother reading through it."

Anyway I looked over the score and it seemed pretty difficult so I sat down and tried to play through it out of curiosity.  Is it just me, or is this one of Chopin's more difficult works? 

Good luck to the OP, lol .

[outin]

How have I never heard of this piece?  It's absolutely awesome!

Since I was unfamiliar with it, I clicked the link to the pdf and when I saw op. 2 I thought to myself, "Oh a piece Chopin probably composed when he was a student.  Probably a waste of time to even bother reading through it."

Anyway I looked over the score and it seemed pretty difficult so I sat down and tried to play through it out of curiosity.  Is it just me, or is this one of Chopin's more difficult works? 

Good luck to the OP, lol .

It is considered very difficult...Since I seem to remember the OP has been playing about the same time as me, I wish him good luck too!

[gn622]

Thanks everyone 

I don't think this piece is beyond my reach but only time can tell 

[outin]

I don't think this piece is beyond my reach but only time can tell 

I guess you're not doing it with a teacher? Mine would think I've gone totally mad 

But it's not to my taste anyway...Mozart...

[j_menz]

I guess you're not doing it with a teacher? Mine would think I've gone totally mad 

But it's not to my taste anyway...Mozart...

What has Wolfie got to do with anything? Your teacher may have cause...... 

[outin]

What has Wolfie got to do with anything?

He's to blame for the theme that is really annoying...

[j_menz]

He's to blame for the theme that is really annoying...

But Freddy completely massacres it in the Variations - I'd have thought you'd approve.  Even in the theme he can't help himself.

As an aside, I can't see why anyone does the solo part in isolation. It really does need the orchestra.

[outin]

But Freddy completely massacres it in the Variations - I'd have thought you'd approve.  Even in the theme he can't help himself.

As an aside, I can't see why anyone does the solo part in isolation. It really does need the orchestra.

I've only heard the orchestral version. The piano part has it's moments but just as you are beginning to enjoy it , the bloody orchestra comes back to the damn thing 

[j_menz]

I've only heard the orchestral version. The piano part has it's moments but just as you are beginning to enjoy it , the bloody orchestra comes back to the damn thing 

You are beyond hope. 

Try this one. Not a violin etc. in range:

[outin]

Try this one. Not a violin etc. in range:

This was not quite as bad, and it's always a joy to listen to Emil, especially a live recording.

But there are still about 200 Chopin pieces I'd rather play if I could...

[hfmadopter]

But there are still about 200 Chopin pieces I'd rather play if I could...

Nah, I just want to play his funeral march( correctly), maybe I'll restart it next year. I need to record that before I pass on, I figure, based on national averages of life expectancy, that loosely gives me someplace between 10-20 years to complete it ! I told my family that when my day comes to scatter my ashes over the Kennebec River and I have not recorded it yet, just use the Horowitz version when he played it at the White House for Pres. Jimmy Carter and gang. They hate it when I talk like that but we do have to be realistic, we don't live for ever and learning great music takes time.

[outin]

Nah, I just want to play his funeral march( correctly), maybe I'll restart it next year.

Which one?

[hfmadopter]

Which one?

Op35- No2. One of my absolute favorite Chopin pieces.

[outin]

Op35- No2. One of my absolute favorite Chopin pieces.

OK...I do like the posthumous one, op 72. And that's supposedly easier as well, in case you're very busy...Maybe you could do both...

[hfmadopter]

OK...I do like the posthumous one, op 72. And that's supposedly easier as well, in case you're very busy...Maybe you could do both...

I have the score to 72-2, so far I haven't been inspired enough to work on it. It may be that I just haven't heard a really convincing performance of it as yet or one that strikes my fancy at least !

[outin]

I have the score to 72-2, so far I haven't been inspired enough to work on it. It may be that I just haven't heard a really convincing performance of it as yet or one that strikes my fancy at least !

I have heard a couple...


I do like the sonata too, but I just think I've heard it a bit too many  times...some not so great performances...

This one is not so bad

But I certainly hope it's a VERY long time until it's needed anyway...

[hfmadopter]

I have heard a couple...


I do like the sonata too, but I just think I've heard it a bit too many  times...some not so great performances...

 
But I certainly hope it's a VERY long time until it's needed anyway...

Oh, that performance is too stiff. No, I meant I haven't heard a convincing or inspiring performance of 72-2. Horowitz has me fully covered with 35-2 !!

Needed ? Who knows when, by male family history on average someplace between 10 years ago and two years from now would be about right. On national average, 10-20 years from now. Maybe I'll fool everyone and live to be a 100 !!!! I have two bikes, I'll just keep riding them . They seem to do my health the most good, that and my music. And of course most family members.

Hey, I dug out 72-2 this morning and sat down for a few minutes with it. It is not as difficult as 35-2 for sure. No Chopin is easy of course, I'm sure there is deception in there someplace.

[outin]

Oh, that performance is too stiff.

Stiff??? True, he always looked kind of stiff, but there's nothing stiff about his playing 

Unless stiff=perfection 

No, I meant I haven't heard a convincing or inspiring performance of 72-2. Horowitz has me fully covered with 35-2 !!

Yes, I got you...we just have to disagree with this one

BTW...it's quite an ear worm...After I listened to it I started doing some house cleaning and all the time while washing floors that thing was playing in my head...still is actually...

Hey, I dug out 72-2 this morning and sat down for a few minutes with it. It is not as difficult as 35-2 for sure. No Chopin is easy of course, I'm sure there is deception in there someplace.

Just too many big chords for me... With the Nocturne that you already play they'd make a good couple, don't you think?

[hfmadopter]

Stiff??? True, he always looked kind of stiff, but there's nothing stiff about his playing 

Unless stiff=perfection 

Yes, I got you...we just have to disagree with this one

BTW...it's quite an ear worm...After I listened to it I started doing some house cleaning and all the time while washing floors that thing was playing in my head...still is actually...
Just too many big chords for me... With the Nocturne that you already play they'd make a good couple, don't you think?

Oh Yes, it bores right into your brain if it's something that gets you that way. It does me too.

I can agree to disagree, we all have freedom of choice around here ! And it's not as though we are really going to go wrong with either. Just to me Horowitz put out more emotion, perhaps took some liberty there but I like it.

Yes, the Nocturne would make a nice compliment. I haven't put that Nocturne away yet, so subconsciously I must have plans for it.  You should see the piles of work I have scattered around both pianos. A pile of pieces for this one a piece for that one, pages piled up waiting, half done and current music on each music rack on each piano. It's rather ridiculous I must say. Then the duet our grand daughter and I are working on ( simple pop piece, it will be fun).. I have binders for my music, it gets put away just to be pulled back out again a month later. I have not renewed my Gold membership because I will just download more ! I should have my head examined just on general principle..

[outin]

Yes, the Nocturne would make a nice compliment. I haven't put that Nocturne away yet, so subconsciously I must have plans for it.  You should see the piles of work I have scattered around both pianos. A pile of pieces for this one a piece for that one, pages piled up waiting, half done and current music on each music rack on each piano. It's rather ridiculous I must say. Then the duet our grand daughter and I are working on ( simple pop piece, it will be fun).. I have binders for my music, it gets put away just to be pulled back out again a month later. I have not renewed my Gold membership because I will just download more ! I should have my head examined just on general principle..

I'm not much better...when the printed sheets of music got overwhelming, I started to buy books instead...just ordered more this week...I will be at least 100 years old before I have played all that music...even if I leave out the ones that will forever be too difficult and the ones I don't care that much about...

But it certainly is easier with books, as long as I manage to keep them on shelf, I will always find what I need...

[hfmadopter]

I'm not much better...when the printed sheets of music got overwhelming, I started to buy books instead...just ordered more this week...I will be at least 100 years old before I have played all that music...even if I leave out the ones that will forever be too difficult and the ones I don't care that much about...

But it certainly is easier with books, as long as I manage to keep them on shelf, I will always find what I need...

Oh God, don't mention books. I've been thinking about books lately, even though I vowed to not do books this time around. The piano store down the street has books ya know ? Amazon has books too. I was in the piano store ordering new damper felts for my grand. Interesting books in there all right !

[outin]

Oh God, don't mention books. I've been thinking about books lately, even though I vowed to not do books this time around. The piano store down the street has books ya know ? Amazon has books too. I was in the piano store ordering new damper felts for my grand. Interesting books in there all right !

There really aren't any stored around here with a good selection, but there's nothing one can't get from the internet...Now that lessons start again I try to make myself buy less music...

On the other hand I used to buy cats before (often from overseas) so this still is a less expensive hobby

[hfmadopter]

There really aren't any stored around here with a good selection, but there's nothing one can't get from the internet...Now that lessons start again I try to make myself buy less music...

On the other hand I used to buy cats before (often from overseas) so this still is a less expensive hobby

We aren't so much into buying cats these days. The last ones we bought were Maine Coons, then we raised a couple of litters of them. Gone back to domestic short hairs now. I said to the wife, when these that we have now start to die off ? Lets just keep it down to two cats from then on out. No reply ! Hmm.

My favorite cat we ever owned in our 40 years married was a Himalayan, Mr Sid was a great cat.

Going completely off topic here, sorry guys !

[outin]

Going completely off topic here, sorry guys !

True...We'd better go practice...

[hfmadopter]

True...We'd better go practice...

Oh I practiced for 1-1/2 hours this morning, from 5:00-6:30 AM. 2 hours Yesterday in the early evening. I think I'm headed out to buy a sub woofer for my digital piano.

[outin]

Oh I practiced for 1-1/2 hours this morning, from 5:00-6:30 AM. 2 hours Yesterday in the early evening. I think I'm headed out to buy a sub woofer for my digital piano.

You didn't manage to wake up your family without it? 

[hfmadopter]

You didn't manage to wake up your family without it? 

Funny, though I used head phones for part of that time .  Found a used M-Audio sub with a 30 day warranty and $20 gave it another 2 years. It's missing the cut out pedal though, but I think for my use I don't really need that anyway. I wanted the sub to lightly fill in the bass when I use orchestration with the digital. Works great, really rich-ens the bass up if not overdone !