basic figured bass question

[ladychopin]

hello,
I have a basic question about figured bass.
when under a bass note there is a number, does it mean that if  in the same measure, this note repeat itself, the chord will be in the same way the one before was? or it is back to root inversion?

For example is the second "G" also in second inversion?

[oxy60]

That is non-conforming musical notation. People who are self taught and have never been to school make things up in their own code. This seldom happens because in classical.

In popular music it happens all the time with people talking in code.

Standard figured bass uses roman numerals for the chord with little numbers to indicate the inversion.

[ladychopin]

Standard figured bass uses roman numerals for the chord with little numbers to indicate the inversion.

If a note repeat itself twice in a measure and on the first time there is a little number to indicate the inversion and the second time there isn't- does it means the second time will be in the same inversion as the one before or back to basic(root) ?

[quantum]

when under a bass note there is a number, does it mean that if  in the same measure, this note repeat itself, the chord will be in the same way the one before was? or it is back to root inversion?

The numbers only apply to the notes directly above them.  

In your example, the first G is a 64, the second G is a G chord with G as the bass.  

If the composer wanted to continue the 64 chord there would be a line extending from the first 64.  

[keypeg]

That is non-conforming musical notation. People who are self taught and have never been to school make things up in their own code. This seldom happens because in classical.

In popular music it happens all the time with people talking in code.

Standard figured bass uses roman numerals for the chord with little numbers to indicate the inversion.

It is not true that standard figured bass uses Roman numerals etc. and that the above is "non-conforming" notation made up by "people who are self-taught".  Nor is it someone's personally made up code.  Roman numerals is one way it is taught or done, and frequently so.

[brogers70]

hello,
I have a basic question about figured bass.
when under a bass note there is a number, does it mean that if  in the same measure, this note repeat itself, the chord will be in the same way the one before was? or it is back to root inversion?

For example is the second "G" also in second inversion?

No, each bass note is treated separately and the numbers do not carry over to other instances of that bass note even in the same measure. A G with no numbers under it is a G major chord, even if there were a G 6 4 in the same measure. It does not work like accidentals.

[oxy60]

It is not true that standard figured bass uses Roman numerals etc. and that the above is "non-conforming" notation made up by "people who are self-taught".  Nor is it someone's personally made up code.  Roman numerals is one way it is taught or done, and frequently so.

Really? Since this is a sort of academic forum, what are your sources? Mine is Roger Sessions text book on harmony, used in accredited universities.

Please note (from that same source) that figured bass is often played with a cello playing the visible notes and the keyboard "improvising" above based on those indications.

[nystul]

While a student may be asked to use Roman numerals along with bass figures for analysis of harmony, I don't think the Roman numerals are meant to be part of the figured bass?  Figured bass as a practical notation is very much an idea of the baroque era, but as far as I know the Roman numeral analysis started later.  I don't have any text books to quote, but I've seen a number of lessons on figured bass without any Roman numerals used.  The Roman numerals would also be redundant information, while bass figures seem to be designed as concisely as possible (shortening 63 to 6 and so forth).

[oxy60]

While a student may be asked to use Roman numerals along with bass figures for analysis of harmony, I don't think the Roman numerals are meant to be part of the figured bass?  Figured bass as a practical notation is very much an idea of the baroque era, but as far as I know the Roman numeral analysis started later.  I don't have any text books to quote, but I've seen a number of lessons on figured bass without any Roman numerals used.  The Roman numerals would also be redundant information, while bass figures seem to be designed as concisely as possible (shortening 63 to 6 and so forth).

Figured bass does live on in the modern era in a most unusual way in popular music! When a band is going through a new blues tune we hold up fingers to indicate the chord changes. Often with new original blues compositions the players can't anticipate the changes or have lost count. Or a new player joins in and needs a que.

The illustration you gave gives no hint as to what number we should hold up. In the case of a band the bass is walking and plays the root on one and maybe three. It's the second guitar and keyboard that need to know the chord number (I, V, IV).

[keypeg]

I don't have particular texts to quote or name, but I know that the Roman Numeral with figures is just one way it is done, and that without RNs predates it or possibly coexists.  The fact that a university uses a particular text, or even many universities, does not mean that the other conventions are wrong, or that it's something "made up" by someone.  The example is perfectly valid.

[quantum]

The fact that a university uses a particular text, or even many universities, does not mean that the other conventions are wrong, or that it's something "made up" by someone.  The example is perfectly valid.

+1

One should not assume that the existence of a particular theoretical idea or application is by any means singular and without valid alternatives.

***

As for sources:

Aldwell and Schachter. Harmony and Voice Leading, 2nd ed.
The text illustrates many examples of both instances: with roman numerals, and without roman numerals. 

Jonas, Oswald. Introduction to the theory of Heinrich Schenker. John Rothgeb, trans.
This analysis text uses both instances: with and without roman numerals.

Brings, Burkhart, Kamien, Kraft and Pershing.  A New Approach to Keyboard Harmony.
Chapter 7 is all about figured bass.  For the most part without roman numerals.  Includes exercises and real word examples to be done at the keyboard.

[momopi]

Can anyone give a more visual explanation of figured bass?

I read the post but somehow it's not registering on my mind. 

[oxy60]

Hold up one finger. That represents the root chord in the key of the piece.