Documentary: So You Want to be a Concert Pianist

[steinway43]

If this is posted in the wrong spot then please feel free to move it to where it belongs.

The main reason I'm posting it is that there was some discussion not that long ago here (and I cant find the thread) about the anti-American bias in the piano world, and someone posted that only one American was admitted to Juilliard last year. Well, indeed, low and behold, when you're watching this, notice at 14:55 how many in the piano class are Asian. I'm not dissing Asians, but it seems disproportionate to say the least. It seems like a blatantly racist policy on their part.

 

[dima_76557]

If this is posted in the wrong spot then please feel free to move it to where it belongs.

The main reason I'm posting it is that there was some discussion not that long ago here (and I cant find the thread) about the anti-American bias in the piano world, and someone posted that only one American was admitted to Juilliard last year. Well, indeed, low and behold, when you're watching this, notice at 14:55 how many in the piano class are Asian. I'm not dissing Asians, but it seems disproportionate to say the least. It seems like a blatantly racist policy on their part.

Here is the topic: "Why are some concert pianists more successful than other deserving ones?" https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=51036.0

I don't think that the idea of "anti-American bias" is really true. I think the Asians may have an objectively better technical foundation; that's why they win the race. Do the math. 40 million very eager Chinese girls and boys (some with VERY qualified help) are practising right now and the level there gets higher and higher, with a VERY solid foundation in technique. I'm not even talking about other Asian countries. That's an awful lot.

Unless something is done in terms of "affirmative action" (positive discrimination) towards US people at home, there's not much that can be done against this ratio. Besides, I think that the moto "this wouldn't have happened to you if you had worked harder" should be modified a bit in favor of work by qualified teachers on actual weaknesses in the students at home. Motivation alone cannot win against super-motivation + qualified help. It's that simple.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the Asians, simply by their number, have a much better chance of selecting real talent than a population with a much smaller number of potential candidates.

[theholygideons]

If this is posted in the wrong spot then please feel free to move it to where it belongs.

The main reason I'm posting it is that there was some discussion not that long ago here (and I cant find the thread) about the anti-American bias in the piano world, and someone posted that only one American was admitted to Juilliard last year. Well, indeed, low and behold, when you're watching this, notice at 14:55 how many in the piano class are Asian. I'm not dissing Asians, but it seems disproportionate to say the least. It seems like a blatantly racist policy on their part.

 

So you're saying, let all the people who work hard and are committed in achieving their dreams, e.g. asians,  not get what they deserve and be given a lesser opportunity to enter, compared to those who are less studious to develop their technique and musicality? Seems like hypocrisy and racism on your part as well.

[steinway43]

If you're saying American pianists can't hack it I'd say you're either crazy or just anti-American.

[dima_76557]

compared to those who are less studious to develop their technique and musicality

If you're saying American pianists can't hack it I'd say you're either crazy or just anti-American.

I don't think it is of much use blaming anyone for this. Stuff happens, good stuff and bad stuff, and nobody is to blame for it and nobody deserves it. The only thing one can do is analyze the situation and take appropriate measures, not against the Asians, but in favor of the US piano education system and the US piano talents who do not have much of a fair chance in many respects.

[gyzzzmo]

So far what i noticed as a pianist (and occasional teacher) is that in average, asian and east-european kids seem way more dedicated and motivated to spend many hours a day behind the piano than western europeans and americans.
Also especially eastern europeans seem to understand music better instead of the tendency to copy teachers.

Some may call it discrimination (wich sounds rather silly to me), i think it has something to do with welfare and abundance of mental litter in form of items, music and distraction of the rich countries that (i think) has a bad influence on musical feeling and dedication.

Gyzzzmo

PS i'm from western europe

[dima_76557]

So far what i noticed as a pianist (and occasional teacher) is that in average, asian and east-european kids seem way more dedicated and motivated to spend many hours a day behind the piano than western europeans and americans.

The teacher is the authority and there is a lot of parent pressure, even beating is expected. That is the mindset, not so much motivation from inside in the beginning.

Also especially eastern europeans seem to understand music better instead of the tendency to copy teachers.

Do not forget the formidable technical training in touch and tone to be able to do it. You cannot express music if you don't have the technical foundation to do it. By 18, you are expected to have solved virtually all the technical problems in the virtuoso repertoire, and I can assure you that mechanical drilling for hours on end is not the way to do that. I can only speak for Russians, but we do also a lot on all-round cultural development. It's not simply hours of dry practice in our study room. Lots of socializing too, but winners tend to attract winners, so that's how we influence, motivate each other.

Some may call it discrimination (wich sounds rather silly to me), i think it has something to do with welfare and abundance of mental litter in form of items, music and distraction of the rich countries that (i think) has a bad influence on musical feeling and dedication.

We have some very good Spanish students here in Moscow and I would not say this is the case. I think it has to do with the thorough quality training they received or didn't receive when they were children. Many in the West simply seem to miss that from what I see on YouTube.

Young people like Benjamin Grosvenor, for example, prove that there IS talent in the West, despite the welfare, but then his mother is an excellent piano teacher, so she probably laid the powerful technical foundation he has, and he doesn't seem like a very sad person to me either. I am convinced that the ones who really love music all work hard, but without the proper foundation, you can't build a good house.

[j_menz]

only one American was admitted to Juilliard last year. Well, indeed, low and behold,

Perhaps they have a spelling requirement.

[bronnestam]

The main reason I'm posting it is that there was some discussion not that long ago here (and I cant find the thread) about the anti-American bias in the piano world, and someone posted that only one American was admitted to Juilliard last year. Well, indeed, low and behold, when you're watching this, notice at 14:55 how many in the piano class are Asian. I'm not dissing Asians, but it seems disproportionate to say the least. It seems like a blatantly racist policy on their part.

 

Well, to begin with, the population of China is more than 4 times bigger than the population of the U.S. The population of Japan is about 1/3 of the American population. And then you can add more countries with Asian looking people, not to mention that there are quite a few Americans with Asian look as well.

They are so many more than you, than anything but a significant majority of Asian looking people is to be considered as "blatant racist policy". OK, so this is an American school, but still, sound piano studies should not know any nation borders. There are 40 million piano students in China only and I understand that the overall quality of their education is very high.

[dima_76557]

Well, to begin with, the population of China is more than 4 times bigger than the population of the U.S. The population of Japan is about 1/3 of the American population. And then you can add more countries with Asian looking people, not to mention that there are quite a few Americans with Asian look as well.

They are so many more than you, than anything but a significant majority of Asian looking people is to be considered as "blatant racist policy". OK, so this is an American school, but still, sound piano studies should not know any nation borders. There are 40 million piano students in China only and I understand that the overall quality of their education is very high.

Besides, the responsibility for the results in Asian countries and Asian families is on the adults, not on the children, which is really the crucial factor. The children simply do what they are told, and success follows inevitably, but only for a few out of those 40 million, as is the case in sports. When you have local talent, you should nurture it with an inexpensive and well-thought out system that really prepares for entrance into prestigious institutions like Juilliard, and not put both the responsibility for success and the blame for failure on the children's shoulders.