how to practice

[pianistaw]

Hey guys, first post new here
I've got a question...how do you practice? I ask, how do you approach a piece? Do you sight read it right away, or do you first split it into sections? When you encounter a passage that contains technical difficulties which you have yet to obtain, how do you manage that? Do you practice slowly all the time, or fast, or both? How slow is slow? How fast is fast? Do you work at several pieces at once or do you need your whole focus poured into one piece? What I am asking here is nothing little. I am literally asking you how you learn. Because quite honestly, I have never been taught how to practice, so I need some advice for building a rock solid foundation for a piece that lies at my command (both technically and musically).

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Don't even think about going back to the Student's Corner! Reply, NOW!  

[pianoman53]

Finally a topic of interest. Though, I'd strongly suggest you to delete what you wrote about exercises. Not that I agree or disagree very strongly, but  it will make the topic go and be about exercises,and not practicing.

Now, to the topic. In general, I start with the thought "I won't stop with this part until I can bring it to lesson, without looking stupid". It means sort of, if I know how I can improve it, I don't continue until I no longer knows.

[outin]

I start with trying to sight-read the piece (badly). Then I usually start at the beginning. Except if I am not secure about being able to learn I might start with the hardest looking part. I usually work on one phrase at the time. But I also take smaller sections (like one measure) if necessary to "teach my fingers". I often first try to play hands together, get an idea of the correct rhythm and how the hands connect. Hands separately if I need to work on the fingering. I alternate between slow and fast practice (my slow isn't always slow enough, but it's very difficult for me to play slow because my concentration fails). While doing it the piece becomes somewhat memorized, but it's not really secure. Only after I am able to get through the piece somehow, I can really start concentrating on details.

After I managed to get through the whole piece like this, I try to get the whole thing together. It's just play (either in sections or the whole piece), evaluate, practice what wasn't good enough, play again, evaluate, practice...Still changing and correcting things, sometimes even fingerings.  I still go back to hands separate and slow practice, until I feel it's as good as it can get. If I have trouble with remembering things, I add more "starting points", which means I practice starting from different spots than what I used in going through the piece. This I could go on doing forever, but at some point new pieces take over...

Oh, and in this stage I also record and listen...and often decide that something needs to be changed or notice little mistakes...

[pianistaw]

Finally a topic of interest. Though, I'd strongly suggest you to delete what you wrote about exercises. Not that I agree or disagree very strongly, but  it will make the topic go and be about exercises,and not practicing.

Now, to the topic. In general, I start with the thought "I won't stop with this part until I can bring it to lesson, without looking stupid". It means sort of, if I know how I can improve it, I don't continue until I no longer knows.

Done

Now, when I read that, the question arises, HOW can you improve it until you no longer know how? This, of course depends on the type of passage practised, but generally HOW do you go about getting it ready for lesson? You might use slow practice, or you kind of "force" the passage to work by repeating it over and over again? There seems to be some kind of strategies behind your thoughts...elaborate! 

[pianistaw]

I start with trying to sight-read the piece (badly). Then I usually start at the beginning. Except if I am not secure about being able to learn I might start with the hardest looking part. I usually work on one phrase at the time. But I also take smaller sections (like one measure) if necessary to "teach my fingers". I often first try to play hands together, get an idea of the correct rhythm and how the hands connect. Hands separately if I need to work on the fingering. I alternate between slow and fast practice (my slow isn't always slow enough, but it's very difficult for me to play slow because my concentration fails). While doing it the piece becomes somewhat memorized, but it's not really secure. Only after I am able to get through the piece somehow, I can really start concentrating on details.

After I managed to get through the whole piece like this, I try to get the whole thing together. It's just play (either in sections or the whole piece), evaluate, practice what wasn't good enough, play again, evaluate, practice...Still changing and correcting things, sometimes even fingerings.  I still go back to hands separate and slow practice, until I feel it's as good as it can get. If I have trouble with remembering things, I add more "starting points", which means I practice starting from different spots than what I used in going through the piece. This I could go on doing forever, but at some point new pieces take over...

Oh, and in this stage I also record and listen...and often decide that something needs to be changed or notice little mistakes...

This is a (much better) variation of how I used to do it haha I just played it right away, and the passages that didn't work I just endlessly repeated...I remember when I worked on Rach's prelude op. 3 no. 2 in C sharp minor, and I practised the part where it starts to get fast, and I drilled that thing like over six hours! Sure, I eventually got it, but did I play it with feeling? ...Nah
I recognise that with the evaluation and repeat! That's what I do now, before I even start to play(practise) it, I ask myself "How do I want it to sound? What do I have to do in order to make it sound that way?". I ask myself why I put my hands on the keyboard, and why I take them away. I think very often students just practise for the sake of practice. But those students often find practice boring and dreading labour. But if they just asked themselves, how do I want it to be, and actually do it, instead of just "because of" they could learn a lot!
I usually take one "warmup-round", find the stuff I want to do better, formulate it in my mind, the action(s) I have to take to get there, and do it. When I have arrived at a perfect rendition, I tend to want to repeat that perfect rendition about 3 times, and then I am satisfied   Recording yourself can be a big help there, if you have your "end result" in mind you compare your recording to it, and see what it is you have to do to get to "perfect".

About the concentration with slow practice, that is on the other hand something I am good at I usually take the fastest note in the passage and assign it one beat on 60 BPM on the metronome. This forces me to be really focused on perfecting it, because it is so easy to lose yourself. I usually see every note(or group of notes) before I play it, as this forces concentration too and engrains the right(or wrong ) notes in your memory. Heavy mental work, but oh so rewarding and fun!
Awesome reply, continue replying pianostreet neighbours

[keypeg]

Now, to the topic. In general, I start with the thought "I won't stop with this part until I can bring it to lesson, without looking stupid". It means sort of, if I know how I can improve it, I don't continue until I no longer knows.

But the point of lessons is to teach you what you don't know, and help you with what you can't do.  The "stupid looking" thing is exactly what teachers look for because this is where they can really do their job.

[pianoman53]

Done

Now, when I read that, the question arises, HOW can you improve it until you no longer know how? This, of course depends on the type of passage practised, but generally HOW do you go about getting it ready for lesson? You might use slow practice, or you kind of "force" the passage to work by repeating it over and over again? There seems to be some kind of strategies behind your thoughts...elaborate! 

Yes, sorry. I was suddenly in a hurry, and couldn't really write everything. So..
I usually work on 2 or 3 pieces at the same time, so that I can bring what I can play best, and to always have a "back-up piece" in case I try something that doesn't work.

so first of all I figure out why it doesn't work, I never just play and hope that it magically becomes better. Einstein said something like "A fool is someone who do something over and over, in the same way, while expecting different results", and it's very much true. If you try to play with, say, a fingering that doesn't work after a week of work, it wont work the next week either.

How to figure out why it doesn't work is obviously impossible to answer, and impossible to do unless you have a rather solid base.

And once I've figured out what's wrong, I practice it slowly. For me, if I can play it evenly and comfortably in an even tempo, I will eventually be able to play if fast.

I also play it in my head a lot. It works very well for me, and I noticed that every passage that's difficult for me, are passages I can't completely see in my mind. I noticed it very recently, so it might just be half true, but still interesting for me.

[pianoman53]

But the point of lessons is to teach you what you don't know, and help you with what you can't do.  The "stupid looking" thing is exactly what teachers look for because this is where they can really do their job.

That was my whole point - that he should teach me what I don't know. Not remind me of what I do know. That's what I mean with stupid - when the teacher says something, and I think "Yeah, I know.. I just didn't fix it...". It's different if he says something I know, and I can reply "Yes I know, but I don't know how to fix it".

[chauchalink]

@pianoman53 I don't know how the teacher is telling you specifically things that you already know.  But usually when my teacher says something i already know I need to work on, I make especially sure to focus on that aspect.  If it wasn't something important I doubt he would have pointed it out.  Sometimes when I know something is dead wrong I have to play it as slow as I possibly can and correct the error (this can be an extremely draining process) but in the end I get a nice result. 

When I get advice from a teacher that tells me a problem but doesn't provide a method for fixing it, it can be frustrating.  However I remember that I should approach that part of the piece with a different mindset, perhaps after listening to a few different performers play that part of the piece and deciding how I want it to sound myself.