how to play retarded note progression without being retarded

[swagmaster420x]

how do i play stuff like c -  d - eg fast repeatedly without actually playing it as
c - d - e- g? do i just need to be super persistent and practice it until my fingers fall off? or is it physicaly impossible to do it perfectly based on anatomy of fingers, cuz im actually thinking thats a possibility

[nyiregyhazi]

I have no idea what you are trying to say, sorry.

[outin]

I have no idea what you are trying to say, sorry.

I thought I was really ignorant having no idea what "retarded" note progressions are...

[lojay]

I think he's talking about playing:
C (1)
D (2)
E+G (3+5)
probably repeated as triplets over and over again.

To answer your question, it isn't just finger movement.  You need to get someone to show you how they do it quickly and how to practice it, otherwise you'll probably end up with a lot of tension.  I'm not going to bother explaining it over the forums because I'm lazy, hopefully someone else will.

Your example is relatively easy.  For example, look at a passage from Saint Saens-Liszt's Danse Macabre:

[swagmaster420x]

I think he's talking about playing:
C (1)
D (2)
E+G (3+5)
probably repeated as triplets over and over again.

To answer your question, it isn't just finger movement.  You need to get someone to show you how they do it quickly and how to practice it, otherwise you'll probably end up with a lot of tension.  I'm not going to bother explaining it over the forums because I'm lazy, hopefully someone else will.

Your example is relatively easy.  For example, look at a passage from Saint Saens-Liszt's Danse Macabre:

thx for the link and cclarification, and ya this is what i mean except i think its harder when played in reverse starting with the single note, like  b - eg- fa really fast, i dont know how to get the thirds to be played cleanly and not have them separated into individual notes when played

[swagmaster420x]

I have no idea what you are trying to say, sorry.

how do i play this note progression: note:C note:D third:EG
very fast without making it sound like: note: C note: D note: E note:G
(the third im supposed to play with the two notes sticking together sounds like two separate notes)

[swagmaster420x]

bump

[nyiregyhazi]

how do i play this note progression: note:C note:D third:EG
very fast without making it sound like: note: C note: D note: E note:G
(the third im supposed to play with the two notes sticking together sounds like two separate notes)

Above all, point the thumb down from an open arch and don't let it lift even a mm above the key when you release the note. Practise overholding it, so you are holding CEG at the end. Move the keys from your fingers without pressing the arm down, but be sure it moves sideways to follow the fingers. But the thumb issue is the biggest part of all.

[swagmaster420x]

Above all, point the thumb down from an open arch and don't let it lift even a mm above the key when you release the note. Practise overholding it, so you are holding CEG at the end. Move the keys from your fingers without pressing the arm down, but be sure it moves sideways to follow the fingers. But the thumb issue is the biggest part of all.

could you explain why? is there physics involved?

[musicman99]

It is to prevent tension in the fingers.

Tension in the fingers slows down movement and hurts. So it's very undesirable.
I'm assuming you want to play this in the R.H.
First, find where the problem is exactly. It is probably in the D to E&G. Again, I'll assume that you play these with a 2;3&5. Practise these two notes very slowly, lifting up your fingers in an exaggerated manner. However, your target is to be able to stop at any point whilst practicing and lift your fingers off the keys without any problems. This would be the ideal, as there would be no tension in this.
It's hard, but persevere. If anything hurts, then you need to stop and try it differently, as the pain is due to too much tension.

Hope this helps,

Carlos R.

[swagmaster420x]

thanks, and could anyone post a video of him/herself playing c-d-eg repeatedlyat like 140 bpm with each note being a sixteenth note?

[swagmaster420x]

It is to prevent tension in the fingers.

Tension in the fingers slows down movement and hurts. So it's very undesirable.
I'm assuming you want to play this in the R.H.
First, find where the problem is exactly. It is probably in the D to E&G. Again, I'll assume that you play these with a 2;3&5. Practise these two notes very slowly, lifting up your fingers in an exaggerated manner. However, your target is to be able to stop at any point whilst practicing and lift your fingers off the keys without any problems. This would be the ideal, as there would be no tension in this.
It's hard, but persevere. If anything hurts, then you need to stop and try it differently, as the pain is due to too much tension.

Hope this helps,

Carlos R.

fyi the problem isnt from 2 - 35, i can do that trill really fast and easily. just try 1 2 35 yourself at 140 bpm with each note being a sixteenth

[lojay]

fyi the problem isnt from 2 - 35, i can do that trill really fast and easily. just try 1 2 35 yourself at 140 bpm with each note being a sixteenth

You can't assume other people will have the same problem as you.  Also, the people offering you advice most likely have conquered the difficulty, so if they attempt what you suggested they may simply sit down, do it, and be like, "EZPZ".

I've taken lessons with a pianist (she learned a Rachmaninoff concerto when she was like 10) that can play pretty much anything.  When I brought a passage I was struggling technically with to her, she played it easily and asked, "What's so hard?".  She simply left it at that.

In general (in other words, I am not referencing this particular thread), people who offer advice may be able to play what they're giving advice on very well, but some of them don't know exactly how they do it.  In other cases, they may be providing you with a solution that worked for them that addressed their particular issues, but may be completely ignoring your issues.  To further complicate the above, I feel that the average person cannot communicate effectively and these communication issues are further exacerbated when communicating in writing (most people can't read/write well).

Anyway, I think it's important to be as specific as possible when describing your issue.  The best way is to post a video with multiple angles; you'll get much more useful advice.

[nyiregyhazi]

You can't assume other people will have the same problem as you.  Also, the people offering you advice most likely have conquered the difficulty, so if they attempt what you suggested they may simply sit down, do it, and be like, "EZPZ".

I don't believe he did. He asked how to fix his own problem and was merely clarifying where that problem lies. That he's fine without the thumb is very revealing. It illustrates beyond any doubt that how he moves his thumb is the whole problem.

[swagmaster420x]

I don't believe he did. He asked how to fix his own problem and was merely clarifying where that problem lies. That he's fine without the thumb is very revealing. It illustrates beyond any doubt that how he moves his thumb is the whole problem.

actally now im looking at my thumb while im playing and i realize it's always tense, i have a hitchhikers thumb so it looks bent inward. this doesnt give me any problems with scales or anything tho

[nyiregyhazi]

actally now im looking at my thumb while im playing and i realize it's always tense, i have a hitchhikers thumb so it looks bent inward. this doesnt give me any problems with scales or anything tho

That's fine, Cziffra has the same thing. Just do a proper job of lengthening it out away from the palm and never expect to get speed by falling on to it. You can rest a touch of weight down, but the thumb should always move enough to keep you supported- or you'll get squashed and bogged down.

[swagmaster420x]

That's fine, Cziffra has the same thing. Just do a proper job of lengthening it out away from the palm and never expect to get speed by falling on to it. You can rest a touch of weight down, but the thumb should always move enough to keep you supported- or you'll get squashed and bogged down.

thx, it's really assuring to get input from people who know what theyre talking about

[xdjuicebox]

The way I'd do it is with a swift supination of the hand. So basically rock the hand from left to right. Practice the 2-35 tremolo, and once you can do that, add the first finger to it. Play the 235 as a chord, then practice alternating between 2 and 35 with each drop, and eventually separate them completely and add in the forearm rotation motion. Use the torque generated from the weight of the hand rotating to slam the 35 down if you need to accent it.

[swagmaster420x]

The way I'd do it is with a swift supination of the hand. So basically rock the hand from left to right. Practice the 2-35 tremolo, and once you can do that, add the first finger to it. Play the 235 as a chord, then practice alternating between 2 and 35 with each drop, and eventually separate them completely and add in the forearm rotation motion. Use the torque generated from the weight of the hand rotating to slam the 35 down if you need to accent it.

the 2-35 tremolo is already very easy for me???

but ya nice suggestion, it's what i ve been trying to do

[liszt1022]

I think you could go from 1-2-5-1-2-5 (CDGCDG) straight to 1-2-35-1-2-35 without too much trouble. Do you really want 16th notes at 150, or do you want triplet 8ths? 16ths would give you a syncopated pattern- that's fine, just making sure.

[swagmaster420x]

I think you could go from 1-2-5-1-2-5 (CDGCDG) straight to 1-2-35-1-2-35 without too much trouble. Do you really want 16th notes at 150, or do you want triplet 8ths? 16ths would give you a syncopated pattern- that's fine, just making sure.

1-2-5 is simple enough for me; i can play it as triplet 8ths pretty easily at well over 200 bpm

the main difficulty in 1-2-35 isn't being able to execute the movement (for lack of a better explanation), it's that when i play it the 35 tends to become separated, so it turns into 1-2-3-5

and i said 16ths because in the song there's a rest before the pattern, so it's sixteenthrest-1-2-35 over and over



the pattern lojay posted in danse macabre would be very hard for me to play without separation as well

[liszt1022]

Does the left hand play on the beats? Or is the first 16th space resting in both hands? Can you share the excerpt from the score...

[swagmaster420x]

Does the left hand play on the beats? Or is the first 16th space resting in both hands? Can you share the excerpt from the score...

the left hand plays on the beats :O
https://i.imgur.com/8urGRPI.png