Strengthening the Hands, Arms and Upper Body

[minona]

Hello. In the days of the old masters, I don't think exercise for the sake of fitness, strength and general health was particularly common among the general population. Everyday life was difficult enough (getting water from the well, etc).

But nowadays, we have a good understanding of how to strengthen muscle groups.

How can this knowledge be applied to strengthening muscles required for piano playing? I know that after hanging from monkey bars (to help my back problem) my hands started getting noticeably stronger. Also, I can just about lift myself up, which is supposed to be the best exercise for strengthening the entire upper torso.

Well, in terms of finger strength, flexibility and independence, I remember reading that Liszt thought it unfortunate that students practiced scales before strengthening the fingers. I think his method proposed playing scales with one finger, until all the fingers are strong enough and independant.

Well, although sitting at the keyboard doing this is perhaps better, many of use don't have the time to do this, and would perfer to spend quality, more enjoyable time at the keyboard in case such seriousness kills our spirit.

There are martial artists who can do pressups on one finger, which I wouldn't recommend, but it shows how strong the fingers can get.

Any thoughts on this idea of extra-curricular strengthening?

Thanks,

Minona

[iansinclair]

There are a few instruments where shear finger strength is useful.  Some old tracker organs come to mind, as do carillons.  Endurance also comes to mind -- the ability to keep going for quite some time, as in, for instance, a concerto.

But shear strength?  No.  The ability to move the fingers, wrists, and arms very rapidly. very accurately, and independently is very important indeed.  But not strength.  I would be very cautious about exercises designed to improve strength, unless they were primarily designed to improve flexibility, independence and speed and only incidentally strength.

Now I must admit that if you are seriously weak in the wrists and fingers, some exercises might be helpful... if, that is, simply practicing the instrument isn't enough.  Which it usually would be.

[indianajo]

Previous post is written by a European, I am sure. Europeans I know can without training, do a pull up, or climb a rope using only the hands, or in the old days,  lash the topsail to the cross brace in a rainy gale.   My body is designed to run down deer with an atlatl until the animal collapses from exhaustion, so sheer upper body strength is something I have to work on. The lower body comes naturally to me, I can still walk 27 miles in 7 hours or bike it in 2 1/3.   Playing piano, especially exercise books like Edna May Berman and Czerny, is adequate for building strength in the fingers and forearms, IMHO.  It worked for me  However my upper arm muscles become quite weak unless I do something continuously. As a youth I carried 20 lb of books and a bassoon home from school 3/4 miles.   In my twenties thirties I relied on the Army Daily Dozen, then in the fifties work as a factory mechanic. However, now I notice deterioration in upper body strength especially in the winter, unless I do something.  I'm daily doing some pilates exercises with a 5 lb weight for biceps, triceps, deltoids. I learned these off the Margaret Richards TV program.  I'm doing pushups leaning against a chair,  since floor pushups hurt my wrist badly,  and I'm doing situps 1/2 way down instead of going all the way to the floor (I'm age 63).  I'm also doing toe touches for my back muscles, since a couple of years ago sitting on the bench for an hour started making my back muscles get sore. I walk and ride a bicycle a lot in the good weather, and do 1/2 hour on an exercycle with pulse between 100-140 in the bad weather.  A lot of vigorous piano can still make me elevate my breathing rate.    
You can exercise so much you become muscle bound, as a friend did. He was so strong and chuncky from exercises promoted by his karate instructor, that he couldn't pass the US Army PT test due to poor flexibility.  So if you want to be  pianist, don't overdo it. However, most US residents are blobs of fat waiting for their first heart attack, so definitely some exercise  is in order unless you heat your house by chopping wood and feed yourself by cultivating with a mule.
  Also, from age 14 to 50, male testosterone will  cover up the damage you can be doing to your joints,  which will haunt you age 55.  Many formerly pro atheletes are chunks of flab in their late fifties onward because movement hurts so much.  So make sure your exercise is not excessivly kinetic on the joints.  Bottom line, live like your great grandparents, however artificial the exercises are, IMHO, and you will be fine.  

[minona]

No. The ability to move the fingers, wrists, and arms very rapidly. very accurately, and independently is very important indeed.  But not strength. 

According to a printout from an intro to Liszt's collected writings on technique, "Liszt paid much attention to the idea of strengthening the hands and arm in his practice".

I'm sure it must play some part.

[iansinclair]

For what it's worth, Indianajo, I'm a Scot -- but transplanted some time back to New England, USA.  Does that count?   Your comments are well taken.

For Minona, though, I think that what we are both trying to say is that some strength is necessary, surely, but that you must be careful not to do anything to sacrifice agility for sheer muscle strength.  A piano key does not take much strength to depress!  However, you must indeed be strong enough to move that finger very rapidly, either to depress the key (the faster you depress it, the louder it is -- it's all too easy to confuse "faster" with "harder" -- harder won't do anything except compress the felt in the action a little more) or to move the finger from key to key, accurately, remarkably quickly.

Much as I dislike exercise books (like Czerny), they can help to build agility and accuracy.  So, however, can Bach.  Or Schubert (I've sometimes wondered if the Opus 90 Impromptus weren't intended as finger exercises...).

I'm not quite sure exactly what Liszt was after, if indeed he was after strength.  I suspect, though, that he was looking for the necessary strength to create speed and agility -- and no more.  And, as Indianajo notes so sadly, there are an awful lot of folks out there who don't even have that much strength!

(I might note, parenthetically, that some of the strongest people I know are ballet dancers -- but they have gotten there through appropriate exercise).

Just don't overdo it.  You're not trying to be a prize fighter or a muscle building specimen...

[hfmadopter]

According to a printout from an intro to Liszt's collected writings on technique, "Liszt paid much attention to the idea of strengthening the hands and arm in his practice".

I'm sure it must play some part.

The point of the matter is that all the hand/arm/finger strengthening you need can be done at the keyboard ( or simulating passages on a desktop for that matter). It's that simple. You don't need to lift weights, lift your body on finger tips or do chin ups to gain the finger control you need at the keyboard. Control is what you want, control for soft smooth playing, control for deliberate FF passages. People do enough damage to their hands at the keyboard even at that ! You are after finger independence not powerful strengthening of the fingers.

That's my take on the subject.

[outin]

You do need strenght in the back, upper body and arms though...This is my main problem, because I suffer from muscle weakness it is often very hard for my arms to support my hands and wrists.
When it comes to wrists and fingers it's more about flexibility than strength I guess.

[dima_76557]

@ minona

"Strong" fingers is first of all a neurological problem, not raw muscle strength.

As far as hand strength (or rather endurance) is concerned, have a look on YouTube at the many IRS/Carpal Tunnel Syndrome rehab videos. Do searches for "Carpal Tunnel Stretches" and "Stretches for Lumbrical and Interosseus muscles of the hand". While these exercises (that can be done away from the instrument) strengthen the hand, they are not meant for you to be able to strike the keys harder, but rather to PREVENT INJURY, just like many of the stretching exercises several composers wrote for the instrument.

[hfmadopter]

You do need strenght in the back, upper body and arms though...This is my main problem, because I suffer from muscle weakness it is often very hard for my arms to support my hands and wrists.
When it comes to wrists and fingers it's more about flexibility than strength I guess.

I would think your bike riding would help some of that. While good cardio exercise it does require some muscle. Rowing would be good as well. These are functions that require overcoming resistance more so than lifting weights. I ride a bike too and if you push the limits a bit you can build core strength in so doing. I also paddle a canoe or kayak. We love to paddle into back water areas where motor boats can't get to because of draft issues. A canoe or kayak draws very little water, lightly loaded our canoe requires about 3.5" ( 8.9 cm I believe that is) of water to float with us in it. 4" loaded down a bit.

[dima_76557]

I would think your bike riding would help some of that. While good cardio exercise it does require some muscle. Rowing would be good as well. These are functions that require overcoming resistance more so than lifting weights.

The only problem with that kind of exercises (including weight lifting) is that you need to do them with CLOSED hands, while for piano playing, you need exercises that OPEN the hand, not the gripper kind of thing.

[outin]

The only problem with that kind of exercises (including weight lifting) is that you need to do them with CLOSED hands, while for piano playing, you need exercises that OPEN the hand, not the gripper kind of thing.

True...I actually developed a ganglia in my wrist some years ago after getting a new bike, but it has disappeared after I started playing the piano. In general my wrists have become much stronger.
I had some problems in the first years, but I haven't had any neural symptoms for about a year now, no matter how much I play

Rowing is excellent exercise for the upper body, I've done quite a lot of that. But in my case the weakness does not respond to exercise, it's periodic and a symptom of another underlying condition. I just notice how much it affects my playing when I have a bad period. My wrists and hands get stiff because they don't get enough support from the upper arms.

[minona]

The point of the matter is that all the hand/arm/finger strengthening you need can be done at the keyboard.

Perhaps, but as a different point than my original one, another concern would be that other muscles (that seem directly unimportant) might be neglected, which might might nevertheless increase stamina, aid posture, help you play as you age, or just support those used for piano. These might well benefit from pure strengthening exercises and even cardiovascular workouts. Is it good to develop some muscles and underdevelop others that might support them?

I saw violinist Janine Jansen recently and she now looks 'gym fit' and so healthy, so it got me wondering how it helps performance and stamina. I know jogging (or vibroplates) help memory.

Anyway, it's supposed to make life easier (in general) to be 1.5 times stronger than you need to be. If your legs can easily lift 1.5 times your body weight, then imagine how much easier you'd find mountain hiking, for example. I can imagine it's the same with instruments to some extent.

[nyiregyhazi]

The only problem with that kind of exercises (including weight lifting) is that you need to do them with CLOSED hands, while for piano playing, you need exercises that OPEN the hand, not the gripper kind of thing.

True- but the powerball is very good. Although you largely grip, you do so in a very open position. By trying not to grip merely for it's own sake, it's extremely useful for developing relevant pianistic muscles and opening the hand up.

[indianajo]

You do need strenght in the back, upper body and arms though...This is my main problem, because I suffer from muscle weakness it is often very hard for my arms to support my hands and wrists.
When it comes to wrists and fingers it's more about flexibility than strength I guess.

Yes.  Try holding your hands out in a seven octave position, say, for two minutes.  Easy? For you maybe, due to the body type your parents gave you, but not me.  My body wants to eliminate those "useless" arm muscles and lay fat on my stomach instead.  That is why I do the weight pilates program I detailed above.  I also hold the five pound weight out from my body static for 30 seconds for each arm.  If I don't keep up with this ( or anything else, rowing plus chinups might be fine) playing Pictures at an Exhibition or Lecuona's Maleguena is tiring.  The exercises I picked can be done in an easy chair in front of the television, so boredom is not such a factor.  Stretching is also important. I still do the army daily dozen "windmill" to stretch out the upper arms.  I also do a hand stretch I learned in factory ergonomics training.  

[hfmadopter]

Yes.  Try holding your hands out in a seven octave position, say, for two minutes.  Easy? For you maybe, due to the body type your parents gave you, but not me.  My body wants to eliminate those "useless" arm muscles and lay fat on my stomach instead.  That is why I do the weight pilates program I detailed above.  I also hold the five pound weight out from my body static for 30 seconds for each arm.  If I don't keep up with this ( or anything else, rowing plus chinups might be fine) playing Pictures at an Exhibition or Lecuona's Maleguena is tiring.  The exercises I picked can be done in an easy chair in front of the television, so boredom is not such a factor.  Stretching is also important. I still do the army daily dozen "windmill" to stretch out the upper arms.  I also do a hand stretch I learned in factory ergonomics training.  

I agree, stretching is very important throughout your body actually. I think I prefer rowing to chin ups though. These days you can buy an inexpensive bungee setup to simulate rowing and do that in your living room. Of course one can still row a boat or get a rowing machine as well. I don't follow my own advice, I paddle my canoe or kayak vs rowing a boat ! Really in the end, the least favorable exercise is eating pop corn and potato chips in front of the tv playing couch potato !!! What ever else one deliberately gets up or out to do will beat this mindless exercise program.

[rmbarbosa]

I agree with Iansinclair.
A 10 years old boy can extract from the piano exactly the same amount of sound that is extracted by a man with very well develloped muscles. Piano sounds result from the speed of key attack, not from muscular force. And a good sound depends of relax of the wrists, arms and elbows. We are musicians, not sumo wrestlers ))

[zippi]

Hey,

For strengthening your hands and fingers i can really recommend book 1 from Liszt technical exercises. I studied book 1 for ~45 minutes a day over several weeks and I really have to say it helped me alot to strengthen my fingers. Furthermore i feel more comfortable with playing scales or apreggios.

[dima_76557]

Piano sounds result from the speed of key attack, not from muscular force. And a good sound depends of relax of the wrists, arms and elbows.

Partly. For high-level piano playing, I think, most important are good tonus in the hand, and usage of the natural structure and function of the hand/fingers on the keyboard with active and sensitive fingertips. If these elements are lacking, then relaxed wrists, arms, and elbows won't help you and may still cause technical trouble, overly heavy tone, lack of orchestration, etc.