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Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards (Read 11527 times)

Offline minona

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Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
« on: September 07, 2013, 07:05:44 PM »
"If I were to begin my career anew it would be on this keyboard." - Arthur Rubinstein

"This invention will have replaced the present piano keyboard in fifty years' time!" - Franz Liszt
_____________________________________________________

Hi. Is anyone here aware of this alternative keyboard instrument?





Amazing, I've never really thought about alternatives, or even questioned it. Here we are learning 12 patterns for ever chord, scale, arpeggio... and all along it wasn't necessary.

The traditional keyboard evolved from a diatonic keyboard and simply had sharps and flats added to enable fine tuning (hence F#, G#, etc) but eventually were tuned to allow scales in all different keys.

It was just a fluke... there is nothing fundamental about the traditional keyboard!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jank%C3%B3_keyboard

Still confused? Play one with your mouse here: http://monxmood.free.fr/beanbut/bean.htm

More info:

http://squeezehead.com/uniform-keyboard/

http://squeezehead.com/uniform-keyboard/robotti/

http://www.daskin.com/

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 07:24:19 PM »
Yes!

I find the topic simply fascinating!

I must admit though, I'm not sure about the janko's potential.

I have deep reservations about it.

Obviously it has many advantages over the traditional keyboard design.

The traditional keyboard's only weakness is also its greatest strength.

Offline iansinclair

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #2 on: September 07, 2013, 11:36:14 PM »
Actually, it's not quite true to say that there is nothing fundamental about the traditional keyboard, even one with the sharps added.  In some instruments (organs and, a millenia or two earlier, pan pipes and their kin) -- which predate the piano by several centuries -- while one could arrange the pipes in some form other than strict increasing pitch, it makes a great deal of logical sense to have the pipes go regularly from low to high in one continuous line (or high to low, if one looks at it the other way 'round!).  The only thing which strikes me as slightly arbitrary about it is that it became conventional at some very very early period that the low notes should be on the left, and I've never heard a good reason for that!

I do wonder, on the Janko type keyboard, what the effect of the varying drop of the key from the front row to the back row would be.  I at least find it disconcerting (or worse) if there is a key on a piano with a significantly different drop, and I would think that that might be a factor?
Ian

Offline minona

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 03:34:37 AM »
Actually, it's not quite true to say that there is nothing fundamental about the traditional keyboard, even one with the sharps added. In some instruments (organs and, a millenia or two earlier, pan pipes and their kin) -- which predate the piano by several centuries -- while one could arrange the pipes in some form other than strict increasing pitch, it makes a great deal of logical sense to have the pipes go regularly from low to high in one continuous line (or high to low, if one looks at it the other way 'round!).

I was really referring to the 7-5 arrangement (as opposed to the 6-6 of the Janko layout) rather than ordering of notes according to pitch.

The only thing which strikes me as slightly arbitrary about it is that it became conventional at some very very early period that the low notes should be on the left, and I've never heard a good reason for that!

Well, most people are right-handed, melody would be played by the strong hand, accompaniment by the weaker hand. Actually, in most people the left hand 'assists' the right, so it seems appropriate for most music if the accompaniment is played with the left hand.

I do wonder, on the Janko type keyboard, what the effect of the varying drop of the key from the front row to the back row would be.  I at least find it disconcerting (or worse) if there is a key on a piano with a significantly different drop, and I would think that that might be a factor?

I've read a little about it today and it seems some engineering has gone into making each row require a more similar effort, at least that's what I think some patents have attempted to do.

Offline hfmadopter

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 09:25:02 AM »
This really makes me think of my accordion bass note system. However that's going back many many moons to try and recall much about it ! Sometimes I think I should pick up another accordion some day.

bi linear makes some sense for piano to me. Just think though, how that would change our hand positioning and technique ! It must make for a mechanical nightmare for techs too. Just sayin.
Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.

Offline minona

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 12:43:41 PM »
I suppose, considering how the traditional piano evolved, it would be an amazing coincidence if it had turned out to be the best configuration. I can imagine if the Janko came first, or even just a two-row 6-6 layout (like our long-key design but no E-F, B-C gaps), had someone then suggested our traditional 7-5 layout they'd be laughed at.

I think the biggest challenge would be orientation, but I can type with four fingers without looking at the (much smaller) computer keyboard, so I think the brain just can do that after practice.

Of course, to us looking at this Janko, it's like someone who'd only played and seen a chromatic button accordion seeing the 7-5 keyboard for first time. It probably would look strange and illogical.

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #6 on: September 08, 2013, 01:52:34 PM »
The traditional keyboard is much better suited to the human mind and body than most people realize.
It just happens that the learning curve is very steep. This is why the great pianists do such incredible things, but there are so very few of them.

The best thing about the janko keyboard is that it is apparently much easier for people to go from the beginner to intermediate stage.

To my ears, everything played on the janko keyboard has a certain clunky quality. I could see it being very good for styles like stride or boogie. I think it lacks the potential qualities of smoothness which are inherent in the traditional keyboard design ONLY when an extremely high skill level has been reached.



Offline minona

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #7 on: September 08, 2013, 02:54:31 PM »
But... how many people have really studied that instrument to the extent of the traditional keyboard? I only know of that one, and perhaps the keyboard isn't as good as a carefully manufactured one would be. It's not a level playing field in that respect. It would take someone to truly perfect the instrument and then master it, and then teach others who take it further, etc.

It could be that a dazzling concert technique would be the norm for accomplished Janko pianists. I have read that one of the problems with the few players of the Janko keyboard during it's brief popularity was that it was easy to 'show off' amazing tricks and normally impossible pianistic devices. I don't think I'd be too distracted by such feats myself.  Here's an early example of a Janko performance:



I think the biggest attraction for me would be improvisation. Having all your chords, scales, modes, arpeggios, runs and riffs in a single pattern as opposed to 12 different forms of each is the most seductive thing.

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #8 on: September 08, 2013, 03:07:52 PM »

It could be that a dazzling concert technique would be the norm for accomplished Janko pianists. I have read that one of the problems with the few players of the Janko keyboard during it's brief popularity was that it was easy to 'show off' amazing tricks and normally impossible pianistic devices. I don't think I'd be too distracted by such feats myself.  Here's an early example of a Janko performance:




Well, you bring up many good points and I agree that it certainly isn't a level playing field. That performance was certainly much more musical and skillful than the one I linked.

I have no doubt a 'dazzling concert technique' could be achieved on the janko keyboard.

The problem is.... would someone really transcribe and re-finger all of the great music written for the traditional keyboard just to be able to play it on a janko keyboard?

I can't see it working too well for Chopin, Beethoven, or Rachmaninoff (among many others).

That leaves the budding janko virtuoso with the option of writing his or her own great works for the alternative keyboard.

And that's a difficult thing to do. It seems genuinely hard for composers to write beautiful, profound music for this thing. It's too tempting instead to use it to 'show off' what a normal piano cannot do.

When in fact there is virtually nothing a normal piano cannot do, in the right person's hands.

 :)

Offline minona

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #9 on: September 08, 2013, 03:21:36 PM »
True. Incidentally, the thing that nags me in the back of my mind is something on the Daskin website and something someone mentioned on a Youtube video: apparently, on the 5 and 6-row Janko, each row is supposed to accomodate a different finger, so generally, the bottom rows are for the thumb, the middle rows for the little and index finger and the top rows are for the two longest fingers.

Surely this would require quite a lot of quick thinking! That is, making sure each finger is on the right note on the right row. Perhaps this idea of 'skipping' rows to play the same scale might negate the idea of a single pattern for all. For me, unless I'm overestimating the problem, I think that 6-6 accordion makes more sense because you only think along two rows at a time. That chromatone looks like a nightmare to me.

Perhaps there's simply always a price!  :)

That said, on the posted video he uses a 4-row model and seems to play quite well along two rows at a time, yet he recommends a 5-row version where fingers play across all rows which I think might cause confusion conceptually. I know the guitar requires you to think across 6 strings, but I think it's an issue inherent in the guitar, not really a positive. I don't want to think as moveable finger patterns too much but as a palette of tones in front of me. I think the result of finger patterns might be be a rigid kind of improvisation and block chording.

Some further insights might be here:

(2-row 6-6 with alt colouring, not a fantastic example, but perhaps he's not long played it)

(A 6-6 Xylophone, at least, makes complete sense.)

Offline iansinclair

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #10 on: September 08, 2013, 03:47:14 PM »
Interesting to bring up the accordion -- at one time I tried to learn the thing, and I still have a very good one around here somewhere... which hasn't been out of the case in years.

The bass keyboard is interesting -- it's arranged in the circle of fifths, basically, with -- depending on the instrument -- various useful chords arranged below the main notes (such as major, minor, seventh, etc.) and the fifth directly above -- as well as next to -- the main button.

For that matter, various button concertinas have really strange "keyboard" arrangements, which tend to be particularly suited to whatever basic harmonic music group is intended (e.g. north Celtic, Welsh, Brittanic/Cornish, Roma...).  Never could get my fingers around one of those!
Ian

Offline minona

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 03:56:33 PM »
Interesting to bring up the accordion

Oops! I meant this kind:

http://squeezehead.com/uniform-keyboard/robotti/

In one of the photos there George Shearing is playing one!

http://squeezehead.com/uniform-keyboard/robotti/UnKeyb3.jpg

Offline chromaticharp

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #12 on: September 25, 2013, 04:24:35 AM »
There is a piano maker who builds the janko keyboard nowadays:

http://www.klavier-reinert.de/

There is also three row accordion:

http://www.beyreuther-musikprinzip.de/seite/81686/6_:_6_knopfakkordeon.html

and the chromatic harp:

http://www.harfenforum.de/wiki/Chromatische_Harfe






Offline hfmadopter

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #13 on: September 25, 2013, 08:54:47 AM »


The bass keyboard is interesting -- it's arranged in the circle of fifths, basically, with -- depending on the instrument -- various useful chords arranged below the main notes (such as major, minor, seventh, etc.) and the fifth directly above -- as well as next to -- the main button.


Somehow I had not noticed this post before now. Yes, the bass is different than piano in layout and the concept actually works well in practice. If you read any accordion sheet music you will notice however, that there is no bass clef but rather your bass is written tab style, much as added guitar tabs would be in piano music. Taking lessons, I was instructed in time signature before bass application off the time signature. Then on to simple pieces of music almost method book style for piano but rather for accordion. The more advanced one gets then obviously the more advanced the music gets and then various bass combinations added but it's up to the player to get it all to fit within a measure. Interesting, however it seems more interesting to me now than it did when I hit my teen years and thus gave up accordion at age 15 after 5 years or so of instruction ( cars and girls were beginning to seem more important).

So enters the piano in my early adult life and a written bass clef. Sometimes to this day I still like those guitar tabs and in popular music I often skip the written bass in the arrangement and just go for the tabs alla accordion !
Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 07:07:42 PM »
Years ago, when I was young and beautiful (...now only the latter with 72) I learned to play the piano accordion by ear. I soon came to realize that it was easy to play its left-hand bass buttons in all keys, but not so in its melody site and so, I ended up playing only in C-maj and A-min.
The more I discovered about the irregularity of the zebra piano Kbd layout, the more it discouraged me to practice the other 22 scales and its countless chord inversions.

Since then, from what I gathered... I believe that the grossly, zebra piano Kbd layout and the traditional music notation has been (and still is) fostered and perpetuated by professional musicians, partly for they invested decades of hard work in developing their dexterity on/in this irregular Kbd layout, partly to discourage hobby musicians and partly to bolster the pockets of music teachers. That's all there's to it!
It's, because the Janko Kbd and my WYSIWYG type of Janko notation*) proves that the same end result is at least ten times faster and easier achievable!  :)
Consequently, their reasoning can only be: Why make it faster and easier when it can be done 10x more difficult and slower?  :(
The great organist Klaus Wunderlich inspired (and misled!!) me to enjoy my Tyros 3, but since my true musical creativity lies in a totally different field; namely, in whistling to music. - Here's a sample melody to which I perform for you to convince you (please copy & paste): app.box.com/s/6f72eb90c2002db2e9fc

My challenge has always been to create a uniform keyboard layout and notation, which is fastest to learn and easiest to play!!
I already built a Janko adapter on top of my old Roland D20 Synth, then removed it and sold it. Now, that I enjoy playing my Tyros 3, I'm going to do the same keyboard conversion to Janko.
Anyone, who would like to know more about it, should email me.

*) My Janko notation offers basic transcription of traditional music notation and    MIDI files to visually suit the Janko Kbd layout. I'm looking for a programmer to accelerate the transcription process. jdrinda@hotmail.com

Warm Regards, from Joh
                          ...in summery St'go de Chile

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #15 on: December 27, 2014, 10:36:29 PM »
I'm still at it... at trying to convert my Tyros 3 zebra piano Kbd into Janko Kbd layout.
In the meantime I tried to get plastic printers to fabricate the Kbd keys, but they are as well very expensive. A replacement set of keys costs about $500.
So, I had to dream up another solution ...and found one:
I just use 0.3mm thin tin covers, which clip onto the keys to protect them. That offers me a firm surface onto which I then epoxy glue the square Janko keys and is easily reversible, in case I need to sell the Tyros later on.
The advantage of this Janko musical Kbd is that it offers the learner to play the Kbd 10x faster and easier; i.e. 1 year of Janko practice equals 10 years of zebra piano Kbd practice!! This advantage is too good to be missed.  :)
Most accomplished zebra piano Kbd players hate the Janko Kbd, because to them it's unfair to have it that easy ...if it can be made more complicated.  :(
The same with traditional notation. That's why I invented my own WYSIWYG Janko notation. It allows to visually transfer the notes from the sheet music to the keys and to forget about irregular scales practice and music theory.
I also converted an old 120-button Farfisa accordion bass (bass section only) to MIDI. It was a hell of work combining, wiring/ soldering up all basses and chords via some 200+ signal diodes. This will enable me to enjoy musical creativity just like a singer or whistler, without bothering about irregular scales and chords with #+b and other Garbo irregularities.
Now all I would need is to find a PC programmer, who could accelerate the music conversion from traditional notation to my Janko notation, because now zebra piano players tell me that all music notation is written in traditional notation.
Besides, I converted an old 120-button accordion bass (bass section only) to MIDI, fabricated a special cover for it, decorated it with cloth of my old shirt and sold it in two day for almost $400 on eBay. It was easy to do: I just added 24 switches onto it air flaps, but I didn't like it, for its 120 buttons had to operate the mechanics and that made the buttons hard to press, whereas my Farfisa accordion bass only activates one soft contact per button!!
Here's a great Janko Demo on YouTube:

 

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #16 on: December 28, 2014, 12:22:12 AM »

Most accomplished zebra piano Kbd players hate the Janko Kbd, because to them it's unfair to have it that easy.

I don't hate the Janko keyboard, nor do I particularly like it. If it makes things easier for people, I'm glad for them!

I do, however, think that the Janko keyboard would be more common today than it is if it did in fact offer any real musical advantage over the traditional design.


Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #17 on: December 28, 2014, 01:02:36 AM »
Yes, the traditional piano is well established and thus, teachers keep teaching and perpetuating its disadvantages. Somewhere I read a list of advantages the Janko Kbd enjoys over the traditional piano Kbd. I mean, if A. Rubinstein and F. Liszt OK'd the Janko Kbd, there must be something great about it. The only bad thing is that one needs to relearn it.
Here are some more Info about, I just found:
Demonstration of the advantages of the Jankó Keyboard by Paul Vandervoort, considered to be the world's foremost player of the device. Program: "Kitten on the Keys" by Zez Confrey; explanation of the Janko note arrangement and advantages over a standard keyboard; demonstration of musical passages which are difficult or impossible to play on a standard keyboard; "C#-Major Prelude" from the Well-Tempered Clavier by J.S. Bach; Boogie-woogie rendition of "Bye Bye Blackbird". 
 It is a development of the chromatic fingerboard and had numerous technical advantages when it comes to playing: The fingering is the same for all tonalities, the hand position is more natural and the span for playing intervals is larger than on standard fingerboards. In addition, it is possible to play glissandi in all tonalities and in chords.
The advantage of the Janko keyboard is that it allows the pianist to span a wider range of notes with each hand. The keys are much smaller than on an ordinary keyboard, and stacked in tiers, and the keys arranged so that a scale is arranged over a much shorter distance than on the conventional keyboard. Janko demonstrated the keyboard himself, giving recitals of works by major composers of the 19th Century. His keyboard was, of course, developed from similar ones by earlier inventors going back to the early 18th Century.
On the Janko keyboard tenths, and twelfths, can easily be produced by reaching a finger to the keyboard above or below that on which the hand is traveling. Arpeggios through the whole compass of the keyboard can be executed with a sweep of the wrist, which on the ordinary keyboard would hardly cover two octaves. Indeed, with the Jankó keyboard, the hand and arm of the player can always remain in their natural position, because to sound an octave requires only the stretch of the hand equal to the sounding of the sixth on the ordinary keyboard.
It is difficult to realize the manifold possibilities which this keyboard opens up for the composer and performer. Entirely new music can be written by composers, containing chords, runs and arpeggios, utterly impossible to execute on the ordinary keyboard, and thus does the Jankó keyboard make the piano, what it has often been called, a veritable "house orchestra". It is not nearly so difficult for the student to master the technique of the Jankó, as to become efficient on the present keyboard. This keyboard can be readily adjusted to any piano having the ordinary action.

Like all epoch-marking innovations, this great invention is treated with indifference and open opposition. That poetic performer on the piano, Chopin, refused to play on the Erard grand pianos containing the celebrated repetition action, because his fingers were used to the stiff percussion of the English action. Today, however, English makers of concert grand pianos use the Erard action which Chopin disdained!

The piano virtuoso and teachers of the present day are opposing the Jankó keyboard because its universal adoption would mean for them to forget the old and learn the new. The music publishers object to it, because their stock on hand would depreciate in value, as the Jankó keyboard naturally requires different fingering than that now printed with the published compositions.

Although the Jankó keyboard, in its present form, is thoroughly practical, and destined to inaugurate a new era for the piano industry, its universal success and adoption seem to be impaired by the appearance of the player piano, which enables the musical amateur to enjoy his own performance of the most difficult compositions with hardly any exertion on his part. It remains for a coming Titan of the pianoforte to lift the Jankó keyboard out of its obscurity and give it its deserved place in the concert hail, there to show to the executing amateur its wonderful possibilities.

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #18 on: December 28, 2014, 06:27:05 AM »

It is difficult to realize the manifold possibilities which this keyboard opens up for the composer and performer. Entirely new music can be written by composers, containing chords, runs and arpeggios, utterly impossible to execute on the ordinary keyboard

Why don't you compose some exciting new music for the Janko keyboard?

 :) Maybe, if you could write something amazing for it that could not be played upon an ordinary keyboard, the world of traditional keyboard players would be more convinced of its superiority!

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #19 on: December 28, 2014, 01:00:55 PM »
The only convincing argument offers the fact that no accomplished Kbd player is willing to relinquish his/ her hard earned dexterity skills, gained on the traditional piano Kbd layout.
Thus even then, if the traditional piano Kbd layout were to be 10x more irregular and complicated, they would be unwilling/ unable to relinquish their hard gained skills.
That's why A. Rubinstein said: "If I were to begin my career anew it would be on this keyboard."
What more proof do we need?  So, I trust good Arthur for having checked it out and properly assessed its advantages and benefits; much better than we ever could...
I somewhere read an article, in which a pianist on a traditional piano and a pianist on the Janko piano played and compared extremely difficult music and the former felt like deceived, because the Janko pianist never crossed his arms and enjoyed far less difficulties.
In the end the traditional pianist mentioned that more than anything else, the art of performing on the piano consists in the challenge of mastering the irregularity of the traditional piano Kbd layout and that's why the Janko piano lacks this challenge. Yet, that mentality seems to have more to do with "sports or dexterity acrobatic" than with music...
 

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #20 on: December 28, 2014, 03:11:38 PM »
If you can write something that people consider to be really beautiful for the Janko system, many people will flock to it. If you can be as good as Chopin was for the traditional keyboard, nobody will mind switching.

Musical skill transfers from one instrument to another. Because I play the traditional keyboard instrument at a high level, I can also play three or four other, unrelated instruments!

You see, musical skill on the piano isn't all about finger dexterity. That is only one aspect to it. Agility of the mind is the most important quality that the piano requires, and if one possess it on the piano, one can learn other instruments without much difficulty!

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #21 on: December 28, 2014, 07:30:43 PM »
Yes, I agree to all you write, but I also or even more so) agree with the professional assessment of the great pianist Rubinstein and reason that only pianists, who measure up to him, the great man, are entitled to contradict his assessment. Could I be right on that point, at least? Composing?
You seem to read my mind... because many years ago, I played with the idea of composing melodies and I even put it to the test. Here's how:
I found a telephone tape answer machine at the garbage (in Germany), fixed it and placed it on the foot end of my couch. When I dreamed up a melody, I just kicked a wooden pedal and it started to record my whistling; then kicked the pedal again to stop the recording.
In this way I composed about 1 Hr. of new melodies in one go; even a gypsy tune and a march. The problem then was... that I couldn't stop! - Where ever I went or whatever I did a new melody sprang into my mind. Thus, I had to force stop it and return it to the list of "latent talents"...
In this remarkable test run I discovered that I could compose in three ways:
1) For instance, listening to Mozart's music, capturing his musical spirit and then try to compose a new melody or combination in his style.
2) Replace the emotional passages or phrases of a known melody with totally different notes/ melody. I happen to be good at emotionally feeling and interpreting melodies; they motivate me. That's why my whistling to music is emotionally rich.
3) Just follow the feelings of the moment; for instance composing a tune while walking through the street or market...

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #22 on: December 29, 2014, 12:40:41 AM »
Albeit even the greatest improvements to the traditional piano keyboard are categorically rejected by all accomplished traditional piano players for many reasons, such as: for, non-of them are keen on relearning new dexterity and skills, lack of Janko pianos etc. Yet, to a hobby musician (like me) the Janko layout is truly very attractive. I just discovered a page, which points out why:

Wholetone keyboards cut piano scale practice by twelve, make transposing and improvising a piece of cake, and allow wider interval stretches.
I believe in breaking down the barriers to instrumental expression, the ideal being to making playing an instrument as easy as singing in the shower. And most people manage to sing in the shower without knowing what key they are singing in. So that is my first criterion for the ideal instrument.
The piano keyboard, whose design dates back to before the discovery of equal temperament, simplifies the execution of one scale (C major) and in so doing complicates the other eleven. What is more, because of its physical configuration, the correct division of function between the thumbs and the remaining fingers necessitates a high level of training to master. The problems of technique specific to the traditional piano fall into the following categories:

1) Fingering. Primarily a problem of placing the thumb undertuck, through scale practice.
2) Memorisation of chord and scale shapes in all twelve keys.
3) Muscle training. Physical interface problems arising from weighting, relative keyboard and hand dimensions, and responsiveness of the mechanism.
 Independence and co-ordination of hands.
4) The fourth is a problem for the brain, and will require practice whatever improvements we make. The first three are design issues.

The Janko keyboard completely eliminates the first two problems by making the fingerings the same for all keys, and by offering extra rows to provide total freedom of thumb undertuck. In addition, because the danger of getting a finger stuck between two black notes is removed, a wider interval can be covered by one hand-stretch without making the keys narrower. 

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #23 on: December 29, 2014, 03:04:44 AM »

The piano keyboard simplifies the execution of one scale (C major) and in so doing complicates the other eleven. 

Actually, C major is the most difficult scale in terms of execution. The others are considerably easier to master!

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #24 on: December 29, 2014, 03:19:57 AM »
Aged 17, I learnt to play the piano accordion by ear/ self-tuition and ended up playing all melodies either in C-major or A-minor. It just came naturally. From this experience I learnt a lot about the irregularity of the Kbd, its scales and chords. 
In stark contrast I enjoyed the regularity of the bass section and then asked myself why the Kbd cannot be made regular? At that time I knew nothing about the advantage of (C-system) button accordion. It's only with the advent of computers and the Internet that new possibilities opened up.
 

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #25 on: January 18, 2015, 01:54:46 PM »
Actually, C major is the most difficult scale in terms of execution. The others are considerably easier to master!
Well, for me to play in C-maj and A-minor came naturally, since these were the easiest to finger scales and hated the black keys! Soon I found out that every other (than C) scale contained the narrow black keys and several scales are even played on mostly black keys!  
Worst of all, this gross, unnecessary irregularity requires to learn and practicing its irregularity!!
"Why have it easier, if it can be done more complicated?", seems to be the piano teacher's motto!

Thus, the only "problem" with Janko is that it requires the learning of only one (!!) major and minor scale with its chords and this cuts the overall learning and practice time by ten; to a nightmare for piano teachers!
One year of Janko learning and practice equals ten years of irregular zebra piano practice!!
If that's not attractive enough... I don't know what is??
Therefore, I simply have no alternative than to convert my Tyros 3 zebra Kbd to Janko. Shall the trapped zebra & donkey lovers enjoy their chicanery...   :)

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #26 on: January 18, 2015, 04:27:29 PM »

"Why have it easier, if it can be done more complicated?", seems to be the piano teacher's motto!



The regular piano isn't that complicated to operate, and unless you're a total meat-head, learning different scales is easy as pie!  ;D

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #27 on: January 18, 2015, 10:06:47 PM »
Yes, I seem to be "a total meat-head". The problem with me is that I seem to lack the talent of Lang Lang...and that's why I prefer to learn and practice only one scale of each maj & min.
That way I have more time to enjoy playing music instead of practicing all 22 more scales and its 1000 chords. So, I leave the zebra for professionals and you to enjoy!
Of course, if I were a professional musician, I couldn't care less if I had to learn and practice even more complicated scales... because that would be my job.
As a hobby musician I would never command 100% dexterity over all scales, because for that I would need to play the zebra every day several hours.
With the Janko my scale practice will be reduced to one scale and that enables me to get further.
I suppose that's easy enough to imagine... unless you're kind of Lang Lang or a total meat-head.   :)

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #28 on: January 18, 2015, 10:24:26 PM »
Yes, I seem to be "a total meat-head". The problem with me is that I seem to lack the talent of Lang Lang...


You're probably not a meat-head.....it's likely you simply did not have had a good teacher!

Most people don't consider Lang Lang to be particularly talented-he's just an unusually hard-working professional musician!

Talent is a strong word, one which I would reserve for musicians like Mendelssohn!

 :)

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #29 on: January 19, 2015, 03:25:39 AM »
You're probably not a meat-head.....it's likely you simply did not have had a good teacher!
Most people don't consider Lang Lang to be particularly talented-he's just an unusually hard-working professional musician!
Talent is a strong word, one which I would reserve for musicians like Mendelssohn!  :)
The problem is... I know what zebra piano teacher would teach me: 22 more scales and chords! Thus, as a hobby musician I would rather prefer a Janko piano teacher.
Talent: I reason anyone, who inherited a combination of unique abilities at a certain evolutionary level is talented. Of course there are talents of different levels of evolution. Skills can be acquired, yet talents can only be genetically inherited.  
Thus, musicians like Lang Lang are clearly talented. With skills alone he wouldn't be able to do what he does. That's my take in regard to talents.  

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #30 on: January 19, 2015, 03:34:53 AM »

Talent: I treason anyone

Be careful, you can go to prison for treason!  ;D



Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #31 on: January 19, 2015, 03:54:56 AM »
 ;D   ...yea, I don't know how it got there; must have been my zebra piano teacher, again!   :)
Yet then again, I did some treason the other year and was rewarded (!!) $100 for betraying and reporting a local terrorist (drug addict, drunk or meat head) to authorities, for committing serious vandalism at the local railway station. That's why I reason that...  treason can be rewarding! :)

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #32 on: January 19, 2015, 03:59:38 AM »
You blame your poor teacher for an awful lot of stuff! Why don't you just teach yourself music?  :)

Offline Petter

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #33 on: January 19, 2015, 04:43:36 AM »
Nice whistling at app.box.com/s/6f72eb90c2002db2e9fc. That sounds truly mysterious and weird! (in a good way)
"A gentleman is someone who knows how to play an accordion, but doesn't." - Al Cohn

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #34 on: January 19, 2015, 02:09:43 PM »
Nice whistling at app.box.com/s/6f72eb90c2002db2e9fc. That sounds truly mysterious and weird! (in a good way)
That's, because you have your hearing connected to your musical soul. In my musical creativity I aim at emotional creativity, otherwise music makes no sense...
Here's more about it: http://jdrinda.tripod.com
As usual, these goodies have been bestowed by our ancestors (not to be confused with "incestors"...). All we can do is to discover them and develop them. At best we might be able to amend them by about 5% or lose the lot... in drug abuse etc. That's what I learnt from discovering and developing them.
I performed for many years at Sydney's Circular Quay and "abused" my creative whistling to music to attract the curiosity of young locals and tourists, selling them the truth in 100's of philosophical books. Good business that was; yet Tarot readers (selling lies) attracted more customers.
Here are some more Demos of my emotional twitter:

https://www.mediafire.com/?t0mocnkevh9bz1c

https://app.box.com/s/6f72eb90c2002db2e9fc

https://app.box.com/s/bluoxacemqlslhtq9bv9

https://app.box.com/s/3ahg6ytsixqnzxzluos4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPEW8KdBxds

https://app.box.com/s/8032813cfe7c9bb08be5

Enjoy!    :)

My offer to all zebras; sorry zebra piano musicians in this forum, who enjoy my twitter:

If you are good at your zebra piano or MIDI Kbd, we can create some unique recordings...
because most music shops are full with piano music, but you won't find that kind of whistling recordings; unless you record yourself some dog owners or the birds in your woods...  :)
Chances are... non-talented, highly skilled Lang Lang might be interested joining me non-talented, highly skilled hobby musician???    :)

Offline jjj333

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #35 on: July 07, 2015, 06:45:49 PM »
Well, since I now gotten old... but not done yet, I continue my musical keyboard struggle: I bought myself a 2nd hand "Yamaha Tyros3" and now I'm trying to convert its zebra Kbd into a Janko. Keyboard preparation:
Since Tyros replacement keys cost each about $13 (incl. shipping & tax), I thought up an innovative method to protect the keys from glue damage and create a firm platform onto which I then can epoxy glue the wooden Janko key support blocks. So, if later on I need to sell the Kbd to a "zebra musician"  :)  I can easily revert the Janko modified Kbd.
This method also offers a chance to revers the Janko to its original traditional zebra piano  keyboard layout, in case I want to sell the Tyros and the buyer does not like the Janko layout.
The key protection consist of covering the black keys with a 0.35mm thin, galvanized tin and the white keys with 0.45mm galvanized tin covers, which only cover the top of the white keys.
After cutting the tin covers, I gently hammered them on a flat iron to perfectly straiten and flatten them.
Thus, the 0.35mm tin and its tight fit prevents all contact with adjacent keys and the keys function as normal. This method is less risky than hot-glue gluing the wooden support blocks of the Janko layout. Hot-glue does not leave any marks on removal, but the hairdryer heat might deform its plastic keys. Also, that hot-glue is not as strong as epoxy-glue.  
I also bought some great looking plastic keys for this my 5-row Janko Kbd at this shop: http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6751627197.html?orderId=68006169494390

Offline chromaticharp

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Re: Janko/6-6/Uniform/Bilinear Keyboards
«Reply #36 on: February 11, 2016, 10:00:17 PM »