3rd mvmt of moonlight from jazz player.

[dcstudio]

think I should try more classical ?

[awesom_o]

Are you looking for blind encouragement or helpful feedback?

In any case.....


Yes, you should definitely play more classical!

Although you should try to play it with fewer showy gestures.

This will help the music to come through in a more pure way, with less sloppiness.

It was a bit sloppy.

[wwalrus]

It was a bit sloppy.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[dcstudio]

horribly sloppy

part of me accepting that I am not a perfect musician is letting you guys tear me up.  I am looking for honest feedback. 

showy gestures--I respect that and would like to know more about exactly why that bothers you

sloppy--yes notes--phrasing...   go ahead I can handle it really.  I will say that my jazz stuff--never gets bad comments...ever.  I am saying that because I am trying to figure out why classical players are so incredibly tough on each other.   Why they hate each other and criticize each note.  I have seen it throughout my life.   The rift between jazzers and classical players is real but it is in no way as brutal as the rift between classical players themselves.   

I have seen them lie and purposely sabotage each other's playing..   that's why I hung with jazzers.  so please...  fear not for my feelings... and criticize

[awesom_o]

I also love jazz music very dearly and study it as much as I can every day. No rifts here.
And I'm trying to give you my kindest and most honest feedback. You aren't getting torn up. Beethoven was getting torn up. And not in a good way.

The showy gestures do not bother me.  I couldn't care less what gestures you use to play, as long as the music is beautiful to my ears.
I recommend you do not do gestures 'for show' because they distract you from what's really going on and therefore from doing a better job.

It sounds to me as though you are trying to play the piece at a very fast tempo and you just don't really have the chops to support it.

You keep the rhythm moving forward effectively, which in and of itself is a good quality. But in classical, you need to control more than just the beat. You need to control the entire sound texture, and make sure that every note speaks beautifully. To my ears, about half the notes just weren't there. The fast notes. They just don't have enough clarity to them.

I think you should really work on your touch and sound. I'm sure it would pay off big time in your jazz playing too. The great jazz pianists all have incredible chops. They can play classical stuff very well! Think about Bill Evans and Oscar Peterson.

[outin]

I've never noticed classical players hating each other, quite the opposite. There might be some competition going on sometimes, but mostly the ones I know are very encouraging towards each other. Probably because they all know how much hard work it requires to get somewhere in the business.

They might not feel like humoring those who try to avoid that work and feel it's enough just to get through the piece somehow and expect praise. This was not directed to you at all, just a general observation.

It is true that classical piano today is very much about playing correctly and technically well and always striving for something even better. And I think that's good, because most things these days are about fast results often on the expense of quality.

[ranniks]

I listened to the first minute or something around that mark. Doesn't sound bad at all to my ears.

Although, for the love I harbor for this piece itself, play it on an acoustic piano next time when recording please.

But what do I know? I only started a year ago.

[dcstudio]

I listened to the first minute or something around that mark. Doesn't sound bad at all to my ears.

Although, for the love I harbor for this piece itself, play it on an acoustic piano next time when recording please.

But what do I know? I only started a year ago.

my ears are now so digitally tuned.   so few pianos measure up.. but I will record it on a grand..   out of respect for LVB...  who I have imagined at the end of my piano since I was 4.  thx 

[liszt1022]

This is a mess. Please stick to jazz, where there are no wrong notes.

[awesom_o]

This is a mess. Please stick to jazz, where there are no wrong notes.

You clearly do not play jazz

[dcstudio]

ahhh stick to jazz, you don't play jazz, this is a mess.

sorry guys...  if I listened to that...  I would have never earned a dime in this business.


guess a couple of you have cross referenced from the other "abuse string"

I am trying to make a point.   I am 49.. I have walked between the worlds of classical and jazz my entire life...  had all the formal training and schooling required..for classical...yet I could improvise and hang on the piano with the jazzers. 

Jazzers call me to cover their "formal" gigs and Classical players call me when they have a gig that "they are not comfortable with"  --because I can do all the "improv" stuff and read chord changes--and "you just do that so much better...at THAT"--

lol... really.  you think you can gauge my abilities from a 4 minute vid.  I am 49.


never understood why you guys are so mean to each other.  so mean and hurtful on these strings.  I have seen classical players really sabotage each other

so sad.   help me understand why please.

[liszt1022]

You're on a classical forum, most of us here are working hard to get good results, and you post a massacre of Beethoven and expect us to say "great job." The music has to speak for itself, without qualifications. David Helfgott's recordings and performances are soulless and technically deficient, oh but it's OK because he had a nervous breakdown? The fact that you can't hear how bad you're playing also means you're not going to listen to anyone saying so. Why don't you get into classical with something you can actually manage to sound coherent, maybe try the first mvt of Moonlight instead of the third?

[dcstudio]

we are in complete agreement about that...

and I will admit that is very arrogant for me to post something like that--when it is obvious that with a little more effort on my part I could post something much more respectful of Ludwig Van Beethoven.  I just left out the recap... just cause.  yes.. totally poor judgment.

I have had a "projection" of LVB in my mind since I was four.   My imaginary LVB friend is not very happy with that vid...


touche...  Mr. Liszt.   thanks.    I concede most sincerely.

we are all still mean to each other though and it makes me sad.

[emill]

...xxxx... I will admit that is very arrogant for me to post something like that--when it is obvious that with a little more effort on my part I could post something much more respectful of Ludwig Van Beethoven.  I just left out the recap... just cause.  yes.. totally poor judgment.

touche...  Mr. Liszt.   thanks.    I concede most sincerely.
we are all still mean to each other though and it makes me sad.

I do not think you should feel that way - that you were arrogant for posting.  Let us just say you were testing the waters here and now have found out that it is too cold ....  on the other hand, YouTube, like many friends has a way of inappropriately lifting one's ego and often our minds get so used to the - WOWs ... Great Job .... Excellent playing .... from people who have no sense of music at all! Friends and co-workers can be worse!!!  It also depends a lot on the circles we work with or who hires us.  My son receives mountains of praises from music cognoscenti here in Manila, but he tells me he is receiving as much critical negative advice, not praises from his tutors at the Eastman School (NY).  It has a positive sobering effect on one's ego.

YES ... the meanness and harshness abounds here and that is unfortunate.  I have always advocated civility as you can always call a spade a spade in a more civil way.  Just take in stride .... there are really some good teachers here .... it is just a matter time and of "Sifting The Wheat From The Chaff" so to speak.

I am not a pianist, but just part of the adoring crowd for classical music these last 5 decades of my adult life. Listening to your rendition of Beethoven's Moonlight, 3rd mvt. .... I honestly feel it still needs a good amount of work and polishing as there are issues of tone clarity or "cleanness of playing" , phrasing and tempo.  Good LUck!!!
 

[pommier]

I am quite new to the community although I have been following for a while, and yes, there are people very keen to judge and give little encouragement. I am a piano teacher of classical music (although I play a bit of jazz) and I notice that classical musicians are in this respect worse. If someone plays beethoven not perfectly it is the end of the world. Jazz are less snobbish... dcstudio, I admire your dedication and also courage. If you have a chance, play and practise on a real piano.

[cabbynum]

You're on a classical forum, most of us here are working hard to get good results, and you post a massacre of Beethoven and expect us to say "great job." The music has to speak for itself, without qualifications. David Helfgott's recordings and performances are soulless and technically deficient, oh but it's OK because he had a nervous breakdown? The fact that you can't hear how bad you're playing also means you're not going to listen to anyone saying so. Why don't you get into classical with something you can actually manage to sound coherent, maybe try the first mvt of Moonlight instead of the third?

I agree.
Honestly it was hard for me to listen to, I didn't finish it...  That doesn't mean you aren't able to get it to a decent level, it just means you're gonna need to work hard and keep practicing.

[ranniks]

I am quite new to the community although I have been following for a while, and yes, there are people very keen to judge and give little encouragement. I am a piano teacher of classical music (although I play a bit of jazz) and I notice that classical musicians are in this respect worse. If someone plays beethoven not perfectly it is the end of the world. Jazz are less snobbish... dcstudio, I admire your dedication and also courage. If you have a chance, play and practise on a real piano.

Both my old piano teacher, who was a jazz pianist, an a student of his, who also likes jazz, were snobbish in regards to classsical music. I felt out of place during practise with said teacher.

I'm glad I'm under the wings of a teacher who can appreciate classical music without silently wishing me to play jazz.

Right now I have 3 classical pieces I'm working on, one piece from an anime and a boogie/blues piece right now. I'm happy about that, because I play a blues pieces without going through jazz which doesn't suite me.