Chorale Preludes and Two and Three-Part Inventions

[wohltemperierte]

The reply rate/percentage on this forum is really low... why?  People not keen to share there knowledge?

Anyway, any tips and tricks on this kind of writing, please post here.

[keypeg]

Reply to what?  Yours is the first post that I see.  Are you referring to other posts elsewhere?  You want to write this kind of music?

[wohltemperierte]

Hi Kegpeg,

Sorry, Yes I meant to the forums on this sight in general compared to the viewing rate.

And yes, I want to understand more and see other peoples perspectives on this particular subject, writing it, harmonic analysis of Bach's work, etc, anything that relates to it really.

Thank you in advance if it is possible to contribute your ideas.

[cudo]

When I start playing Bach I first analyse it. Then I cut it down in short parts which I repeat frequently so I can improvise them on the fly. I play variations. After that I connect these short parts together and improvise on the complete form having the original melodies allways in mind.

Here is the result. -->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jup21yK8qzc&list=PL98D0D77215D025AA

 

[tdawe]

Probably because you just posted an insanely broad question, not to mention no one on here knows anything about your prior knowledge of musical theory.

[wohltemperierte]

Sorry for being 'insanely broad' folks.

Few questions that i have on this topic atm, and to be slightly more specific on the matter,

Q1) What is the key scheme for a short 2 OR 3 part invention, of lets say 16 bars.
Q2) Choral preludes, how to avoid the crossing of voices when the choral melody is given in the middle voice?
Q3) What compositional devices/techniques does Bach use most often? eg. Diminution, retrograde etc.
Q4) What are common compositional/harmonic/melodic characteristics/features of Bach's chorale prelude, 2 and 3 part inventions or even Bach chorales and preludes and fugues can be up for discussion as well.
Q5) How many bars does one idea/motive/theme usually last for?

[tdawe]

Sorry for being 'insanely broad' folks.

Few questions that i have on this topic atm, and to be slightly more specific on the matter,

Q1) What is the key scheme for a short 2 OR 3 part invention, of lets say 16 bars.
Q2) Choral preludes, how to avoid the crossing of voices when the choral melody is given in the middle voice?
Q3) What compositional devices/techniques does Bach use most often? eg. Diminution, retrograde etc.
Q4) What are common compositional/harmonic/melodic characteristics/features of Bach's chorale prelude, 2 and 3 part inventions or even Bach chorales and preludes and fugues can be up for discussion as well.
Q5) How many bars does one idea/motive/theme usually last for?

My apologies for being brusque - but I'm sure you understand, there's such a wide variety of abilities and knowledge on the internet...

q1. Not sure exactly what you want to know for this. But you can see a quick summary of the modulation of all Bach's inventions here: https://www.musicapulchra.com/2008/12/28/tonal-schemes-in-bach-s-two-part-inventions
q2. not my area of expertise
q3/4. This really depends on the composition. I'm not really sure he uses one more than any other. Remember, the inventions were written for a didactic purpose. They use a variety of compositional techniques: for example, double counterpoint in the A, E, f, E and E-flat, fugue in G and b, canon in F. If you look at other works such as the Art of Fugue you'll see Bach demonstrate his contrapuntal mastery in a series of increasingly complex fugues. A good example  is the ninth invention which features the BACH motif as its subject.
q5. In what context? Again, you can't really give a definitive answer to this... look at some scores yourself, or give some concrete examples.

[wohltemperierte]

Thanks for the suggestions tdawe.  You're right that there certainly is no definitive answer to music and creativity.

I am asking all these question because I have to write a two-part invention of around 16 bars, complete a three part invention, in which there is a one given part, and complete a chorale prelude in which the melody is given in an exam.

I will come back to this forum and upload some of the work I have completed open for comments and criticism to further my learning.

All I can say is, writing in the style of Bach is like learning a new language.  It can be a slow and agonizing process if you're not gifted like Bach!

[quantum]

If you want to start writing inventions, then start writing inventions.  You don't need need a complete and all-encompassing knowledge of the genre in order to start writing.  Don't expect to write a masterpiece on your first try, just because you are knowledgeable on how Bach wrote.  The idea is to learn as you write, not to learn everything first then write perfectly. 

[j_menz]

just because you are knowledgeable on how Bach wrote. 

Nor should one assume that Bach had the last word on the form.

For example, here's a somewhat more modern take:

[wohltemperierte]

I completely concur with you quantum.  It takes much patience, practice and determination, just as much as learning an instrument.  No one can expect someone to master playing an instrument just by having knowledge of what the notes are.

Anyway, I have learned that rules are only there for a guide and can be broken and manipulated for creativity.