Need some help on a legal issue..

[champy1985]

Hi guys, I need a help for some legal issue...
Here is the story..


my church is renovating the building and we are producing CD to raise fund...
all tracks in the CD are Hymns and christian songs newly arranged by me and the gang. The problem is, we record everything and found out that one of the tracks is copy right. But we really want to keep that track in the CD.

So I would like to write to the owner for a permission to use his song for free since this is a charity project... Or we will be willing to pay for the copyright if we see that is logical and reasonable...

but I really don't know how...

the title of the song is... "They'll Know We Are Christians By Our Love" by Peter Scholtes.
I believe he who wrote this song already died a few years ago ...

You guys got some advice for us?

[iansinclair]

That is a nice anthem; I've used it on occasion.

However, as you note, it is still in copyright (so, for that matter, are an amazing number of more recent hymn tunes -- something to watch).

The only solution of which I am aware is to write directly to the copyright holder and explain, quite precisely, what modifications (if any) you have made to the music and what, again, quite precisely, you are planning to do with the CD.  It is, for better or worse, up to the copyright holder to decide what to do next -- let you have it (properly credited, of course) for no charge, make a minor charge, or even take a royalty off the CD -- or at worst simply say no way.

[Bob]

I think you need permission just to arrange the music if it's under copyright.  You might be depriving the copyright holder of income by not buying the already published version.  They ok or deny the arrange/derivative work.  Or might not respond at all.

If it's the first performance... recorded I think... The copyright holder has dibs on that.  After that though, anyone can record it and sell it.  You just have to pay royalties.

The copyright owner is probably a business.  They'll either respond or not.  If they don't respond, you're stuck.  It might not be worth their time to respond.  But if you make tons of money, they might go after that.  If they do respond, they'll probably either tell you what they'll allow you do (like 'sure you can arrange it, sure you can sell it and not pay us) or they'll deny it.  It's possible their business is religious music and their customers are churches, so they'll say 'no, you pay us for that.'

If you're not making tens of thousands of dollars, no one will probably care much about what you do.  Even if a business is getting ripped off, it doesn't look good to hunt down churches.  Who's going to buy or use their music after that?  If they do nothing, even while getting ripped off, you've just gone out and publicized their music -- You liked it.  People bought it.  Those people might be more, etc. and the business makes more money off that.

If you do jump through all the hoops with copyright, I'd stick that clearly in any info about your CD.  After doing all that work, you do kind of want the world to know, "This CD is absolutely legal.  No copyright issues here."

If it's a DVD, then there are more copyrights.  Mechanical or synchronization.  Something like that.  The image of the music being performed.

And the other important part is time.  Hopefully you're not planning on selling the CD any time soon.  Sometimes the publishers don't respond for a few months... or six months...  Or maybe never.  Now would be a good time to contact people if you wanted to sell a CD next May.  Or you find out you should have contacted the copyright owner before you ever had the idea of doing a fundraiser with a CD.  The timing doesn't work out.  In that case, you just leave that off the CD to stay legal.  Or you put it in the CD illegally and hope nothing happens.  And the time a project comes along, you already know how far you need to plan ahead.... And you possibly don't use music by that composer/from that publisher if they're too much of a pain to work with. 

The copyright owner really might not care or pay attention at all.  They might crank stuff out and make their money off the initial sales.  After that they might not want to pay someone to mess with ok'ing copyright requests.  Why employ a clerk to deal with a profit of $50?

If you're lucky, they'll be set up to deal with it.  You'll get a quick response, and they'll tell you exactly what you can and cannot do.  If you like their deal, you'll probably use them again in the future.

[oxy60]

Contact ASCAP and tell them this story. They will have an answer.

[pianoplunker]

Hi guys, I need a help for some legal issue...
Here is the story..


my church is renovating the building and we are producing CD to raise fund...
all tracks in the CD are Hymns and christian songs newly arranged by me and the gang. The problem is, we record everything and found out that one of the tracks is copy right. But we really want to keep that track in the CD.

So I would like to write to the owner for a permission to use his song for free since this is a charity project... Or we will be willing to pay for the copyright if we see that is logical and reasonable...

but I really don't know how...

the title of the song is... "They'll Know We Are Christians By Our Love" by Peter Scholtes.
I believe he who wrote this song already died a few years ago ...

You guys got some advice for us?

You have a very valid and legitimate concern. There is a reason someone owns a copyright, and there was time and money involved in getting a copyright. I doubt a copyright owner would ignore the use of the work. The time and effort you spend trying to get permission might bring more problems than it is worth. Even if everyone smiles and shakes hands , there is probably a stack of paper to be signed by everyone. If it were my project I would replace the track to avoid a delay. Or you can just use the track and pray you dont get struck by lightning. Copyright infringment has no financial litigation limit. They could sue for big $$$. One would think since this is just a standard church folk song it would be ok, but just look up "Happy Birthday" - there was a court case involving it.   

[j_menz]

the title of the song is... "They'll Know We Are Christians By Our Love" by Peter Scholtes.
I believe he who wrote this song already died a few years ago ...

Just change the words to "They'll Know We Are NOT by Our Lawsuit"