Hands

[vaio9876]

To all the pianists what is the best size of hands to play classical piano, for example reaching an Octave?

[jazzyprof]

To all the pianists what is the best size of hands to play classical piano, for example reaching an Octave?

There's a story about the great pianist Leopold Godowsky, who apparently had quite small hands. He was asked by an avid fan after a concert, "How can you play so magnificently with such small hands?" Godowsky replied, "Whatever gave you the idea that I play the piano with my hands?"

I believe what he meant was that it is not the size of one's hands or the strength of one's muscles that allows us to create music at the piano.  It is more the size of our heart and the depth of our passion.

As a practical matter, of course if you can't span an octave you can either leave out certain notes, or "roll" the octave and use judicious pedalling to connect the notes.

[donjuan]

you can artsy farts this question up all you want, but in the end the answer is physics.  The wider your hand is, the easier it will be to reach big chords.  The skinnier your fingers are, the more versatile you will be in figering because you can play with fingers between the black keys.

If you have great hands, you will definately have an advantage because you are naturally more fit to succeed at the piano.

[jazzyprof]

If you have great hands, you will definately have an advantage because you are naturally more fit to succeed at the piano.

That's baloney.

[donjuan]

If you have great hands, you will definately have an advantage because you are naturally more fit to succeed at the piano.

That's baloney.

ok....why?

Im not refering to musical talent here!

[jazzyprof]

As a pianist you adapt your playing to suit your anatomy.  My piano teacher can barely span an octave yet she has the most beautiful tone I have ever heard on the piano.   There are certain things where size matters.  If you have very short arms forget about playing trombone.  If you are only 5 ft. 3in., don't try out for the NBA.  For playing piano there are many ways to create sonorities and textures with alternate fingerings, pedaling, rolling tenths, arpeggiating big chords, crossing hands...etc that can make a person with small hands sound as if they had hams for hands.   

[Daniel_piano]

How about Alicia de Larrocha?
Anyway, I think that it's completely wrong to say that bigger hands are better for playing the piano
In fact, they're just better to play large intervals.. that's it, that's all
Now, piano is not only large intervals
Both big and small hands have their cons
With big hands you can play large intervals easily but I become harder when you have consecutive notes within a short intervals range
With small hands you may have problems with large intervals but you're advantage when you have a series of notes within the range of short intervals
Piano repertoire is comprised both of pieces with large intervals and pieces with short intervals
it seems to me however that the piece where the largest interval is a ninth or an octave are far more numerous than those piece where you need a tenth or a twelfth

We shouldn't forget that Rachmaninov had his problems too with a lot of pieces because of his big hands, and as a matter of fact they were the symptoms of a disease he suffered

Had the piano repertoire made only of pieces made of tenths or only made of pieces made of sevenths, we might also say there's a better hand size between large and small
But since the piano is made of both and among the pianists they all had different hand size; I don't think no one is better
One is better for certain pieces, one is better for the other, neither one prevents you form performing the complete repertoire

Daniel

[Daniel_piano]

If you have great hands, you will definately have an advantage because you are naturally more fit to succeed at the piano.

That's baloney.

ok....why?

Because your statement implies that "big chord" and "piano repertoire" are the same thing or particulary linked
But actually there are far more pieces where you just need an octave or a ninth than pieces where you need a twelfth
So, yes, the wider your hand is, the easier is to reach big chords
So what?
How this has anything to do with being naturally more fit to succed at the piano?
Piano repertoire is not synonimous of big chords, and if we forget about Rachmaninov for a moment, a lot of piano composer has average hands (a ninth)

So, saying that "big hands" are better for big chords, is not the same as saying that "big hands" are better for playing piano

Daniel

[Fastzuernst]

At the beginning of his career Skriabin was well known as a concert pianist while Rachmaninoff, as a composer.
Skriabin could barely reach an octive.

[donjuan]

If you have great hands, you will definately have an advantage because you are naturally more fit to succeed at the piano.

That's baloney.

ok....why?

Because your statement implies that "big chord" and "piano repertoire" are the same thing or particulary linked
But actually there are far more pieces where you just need an octave or a ninth than pieces where you need a twelfth
So, yes, the wider your hand is, the easier is to reach big chords
So what?
How this has anything to do with being naturally more fit to succed at the piano?
Piano repertoire is not synonimous of big chords, and if we forget about Rachmaninov for a moment, a lot of piano composer has average hands (a ninth)

So, saying that "big hands" are better for big chords, is not the same as saying that "big hands" are better for playing piano

Daniel

Maybe I read the original question wrong, but I thought we were taling more about having the physical equipment (proper hands) so you are PHYSICALLY able to play the piano.  My sister cant play an octave because her hands are too small.  As a result, she never played any of the works demanding octaves (ha- Id llike to see her try hungarian Rhapsody No.6).  She had good technique and the intervals she could reach, she played well. 

But lets look at Busoni.  In his transcription of Bachs Chaconne in Dm, you need a reach of at least 10 to play the stretches, and if you arpeggiate them because you cant reach the notes, you are playing out of style and not following the composer's intentions, and therefore, NOT really playing the piece well.  I didnt interpret this original thread of being a question of intelligence or musical interpretation, but more empircally- having the adequate tools.  It would be good if vaio9876 would post again to clear this up for me.
donjuan

[Daniel_piano]

If you have great hands, you will definately have an advantage because you are naturally more fit to succeed at the piano.

That's baloney.

ok....why?

Because your statement implies that "big chord" and "piano repertoire" are the same thing or particulary linked
But actually there are far more pieces where you just need an octave or a ninth than pieces where you need a twelfth
So, yes, the wider your hand is, the easier is to reach big chords
So what?
How this has anything to do with being naturally more fit to succed at the piano?
Piano repertoire is not synonimous of big chords, and if we forget about Rachmaninov for a moment, a lot of piano composer has average hands (a ninth)

So, saying that "big hands" are better for big chords, is not the same as saying that "big hands" are better for playing piano

Daniel

Maybe I read the original question wrong, but I thought we were taling more about having the physical equipment (proper hands) so you are PHYSICALLY able to play the piano.  My sister cant play an octave because her hands are too small.  As a result, she never played any of the works demanding octaves (ha- Id llike to see her try hungarian Rhapsody No.6).  She had good technique and the intervals she could reach, she played well. 

But lets look at Busoni.  In his transcription of Bachs Chaconne in Dm, you need a reach of at least 10 to play the stretches, and if you arpeggiate them because you cant reach the notes, you are playing out of style and not following the composer's intentions, and therefore, NOT really playing the piece well.  I didnt interpret this original thread of being a question of intelligence or musical interpretation, but more empircally- having the adequate tools.  It would be good if vaio9876 would post again to clear this up for me.
donjuan

I think you've misunderstood my reply
I was not talking about interpretation or creativity
I was just talking from a physical point of view
You said that big hands are better for big chords
The point is that being able to play big chords is not synonymous with being able to play the piano
Just because some piece require a tenth, it doesn't meant that all pieces require that span
There are far less pieces that require a tenth than pieces that doesn't require it

So I agree with you that big hands are better for playing big chords
But I don't agree with you that you need to reach big chords to succeed at the piano, as majority of the pieces require a normal span and majority of composers had a normal span
A minority of pieces with big chords doesn't make the whole piano repertoire

So again, from a purely physical point of view: if you have big hands you can better play big chords, but being able to play big chords doesn't make a difference about succeeding at the piano

If you have great hands you have an advantage with big chords and a disadvantage with short intervals (think of those pianist that have a middle finger that cover two keys at the same time)
If you have smaller hands you have a disadvantage with big chords but an advantage with tone and smaller intervals

Neither of these is better for succeding at the piano, as the piano repertoire is neither all big chords nor all small intervals, yet piano playing in its whole exists also without any big chords or pieces with large intervals

If you have great hands, you will definitely have an advantage because you are naturally more fit to succeed at playing pieces with big chords
That's all
Not piano in general, just those minority of pieces with big chords

Daniel

[donjuan]

how does having a small hand help with tone?

[Daniel_piano]

It's having hands that are too big that is conterproductive to tone quality
I know people who reach an octave without stretching their hand, at rest
This simple implies that when they have to play short intervals or several consecutive notes they need to make strange movements so that the palm is pressed within its center in a instinctive attemp to make their hands smaller

Now, it would depends what we consider as big and small; maybe we're talking with different meaning in mind
Having a 11th or 12th is from what I've observed with my scoolmates a disadvantage as you have either a palm too small to play consecutive notes with ease (but eventually you can become able to do anything despite your condition, just think about those concert pianists with very thick fingers or those that barely reach a seventh), or fingers too long to play with ease
Of course it is an advantage when you have to play big chords

That what I would consider big hands
On actave or less is what I would call small hands
A ninth or a tenth is what I consider average

We may be all enchanted from Rachmaninov music but as far as I've read he considered his big hands a cons and wrote several pieces with very big intervals as a way to make them an advantage as far as his own music was concerned
The same for Franck

Schoolmates that have a 11th or a 12th envy my barely 10th as they think their big hands are not advantaging them at all

Daniel

 

[Ed Thomas]

The size of the piano keys must certainly be a compromise to fit the most hands as comfortably as possible.  So extra small hands and extra large hands will have to work to compensate.  The keyboard was invented to be EASY to play...not a challenge to play.  If you want to feel what it's like to have hands that are bigger than ideal for a keyboard, find one of those cheesy 3/4 size (mid-size?) electronic keyboards.  Your fingers just stumble all over each other because the keys are just too small.  So once again, we find that being about average is a good thing.

[Cecin_Koot]

I have hands slightly larger then the averege for my age, which is good for playing the piano