Memory in the wrong place?

[ranniks]

I have my memory in my hands when playing the piano. Is this normal?

For example: mid-part of a piece I forget something and instead of starting a few meassures back, I'd have to restart the entire piece to get the feel/hand memory back.

Is this normal? If not, how does one solve this?

[sucom]

I would suggest starting your practice at the beginning of random sections.  Once these have been memorised separately, you can string the sections together.

For me, it's like learning a string of numbers.  If I had to memorise 39538938920483583, for example, I could find this tricky so what I would do is learn the numbers in groups, like telephone numbers for instance, and then string the numbers together.

[iansinclair]

Perfectly normal, unfortunately.  I wish it weren't!  However, I think you will find that as you become more and more familiar with a piece you will also find that you are increasingly able to start at the beginning of any chosen section (I at least find it almost impossible to begin in the middle of a section, even on a piece I know very well indeed), as these tend to be natural pauses in your muscle memory sequence.

And that is what it is: a muscle memory sequence, of exactly the same class as a gymnast's floor routine, or a dancer's solo -- or, for that matter, even signing your name.

Sucom's idea has merit in helping with this -- play sections of the piece by themselves.  I would be a little wary of that, as it might create a feeling of more of a gap between segments than you wanted.  But it might help.

[timothy42b]

It's completely normal but it's also bad.

You need to get away from relying on that muscle memory. 

[dima_76557]

You need to get away from relying on that muscle memory.

I would add the word "only" to your sentence.

= = = = =

@ ranniks

Muscle memory is essential for a good execution and should be at the base of the memory pyramid, the most deeply ingrained type of memory. It should get deliberate attention (not mindless drilling!) during practice, because otherwise it will definitely betray you during performance. It should NEVER be the focus of attention, though, while performing! One should, of course, be able to start ANYWHERE in a piece without losing one's way. What happened to you is not too much finger memory, but rather a severe case of NOT ENOUGH of that kind of memory, to such an extent that it requires your attention while performing.

On top of finger and hand position memory should be other types of memory that are the result of deliberate analysis, listening, work on the artistic image, etc. The ultimate kind of memory is the memory of the MOOD of (different parts of) the piece. Wherever possible, this should be the focus of attention while performing.

[outin]

Ranniks:

As others tell you this is how it is. I had exactly the same problem for a long time, I was unable to play things through because of random memory blackouts.

For me it has helped to first learn the piece in general (I usually learn by phrases). After that I analyze where the "risky" sections are and deliberately learn to start from different spots around those sections. It is tedious sometimes, because I need to write down fingerings again on those new starting points and relearn some movements that already were quite automatic, but it really helps me feel safer with the piece. And the feeling of safety actually reduces the incidences of forgetting. I only get problems and have to use these "emergency starting points" when I am in general "not there", meaning I have a weak concentration level.

A year ago I hardly ever managed to play through any my pieces on lessons, now I mostly can, even if I make mistakes and get lost momentarily. This method was of course suggested on this board by more experienced people many times, but since it was quite tedious first it took me a while before I actually started doing it

But without any muscle memory playing would be impossible, so I guess we shouldn't complain too much about it.

[hfmadopter]

As you move along/advance, eventually you should start to see phrases of notes and ultimately chords within a piece of music. The more familiar you get with key signatures and related chords within them the more sure you will be about where you are playing to or from within a piece. You will always have muscle memory, my teacher used to call it playing by reflex and she wanted memorization to come from the next level so you don't rely on just reflex/muscle memory.

So you could call out the chords you are playing as you play along in a piece. It's an added step in the learning process of the piece but builds security within the piece. It may not come to you over night, it's another one of those life long learning experiences in learning piano. In time your left hand at least will go right to the chord, then it's a matter of the exact sequence of the chord pattern the piece has written. Kind of like seeing a road map but you still have to physically drive the route when you get there.

[timothy42b]

There seem to be five ways to approach memory.

Some advocate using as many as possible at the same time, while others say to focus on what fits your personal style the best.

But all that I've read agree that muscle memory is the least reliable of the five.

Thank you for the correction (adding the word only).  That is what I meant.

[dima_76557]

There seem to be five ways to approach memory.

Some advocate using as many as possible at the same time, while others say to focus on what fits your personal style the best.

But all that I've read agree that muscle memory is the least reliable of the five.

If finger memory is solely the result of mindless repetition, then I would agree that it is very unreliable because in such a way, the music never enters the conscious mind. It only exists in the subconscious; the artistic and expressive part of the brain. As soon as the brain goes "conscious" under the stress of performance, or if you are very tired, memory may go "blank", even if you know MUSICALLY (ears, knowledge, etc.) where you are.

If finger memory is based on deep technical analysis and "chunking" of hand positions (proprioception, tactile memory), though, then it is VERY solid, especially combined with the memory of black and white.

EDIT: Memory lapses tend to happen in "easy" passages that don't require too much attention. Make a TECHNICAL challenge out of it (voicing, getting a melody out, etc.) and your chances of successfully remembering that passage increase considerably!

[timothy42b]

EDIT: Memory lapses tend to happen in "easy" passages that don't require too much attention. Make a TECHNICAL challenge out of it (voicing, getting a melody out, etc.) and your chances of successfully remembering that passage increase considerably!

I absolutely agree.

But I also tend to think that pushes it out of the finger memory realm.

[stefo78]

I had exactly the same problem but I lost it, changing completely my way to practice.
Now, I use "mental play" a lot learning a piece - that is to say, I learn visually, by some kind of fingers and keyboard memory (I see the keyboard and my hands in my head) - it sounds terribly difficult but not so much and a above all, it is a lot rewarding !
Since then, I do not forget the pieces for now...

The inconvenient is if you try this on pieces you already worked on (without mental practice), it will be very very difficult to do so. Take a new piece, and practice in your head - hands separately first - and with that your memory will go on the right place ! (and your motivation will be boosted up !)