casio ap245

[barricades]

Hi there, guys. I'm looking for an upgrade for my crappy old digital piano. I don't want to spend a fortune though so my budget is to be as close to £500 as possible

I've read the opinions on here from other people looking to buy digital pianos and in particular where someone posted the link to https://azpianonews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/review-20122013-digital-pianos-under.html

I've been directed towards the casio ap245 which is £499. I understand it's pretty much the same spec as casio ap250 being brought out as a special priced limited edition for this xmas.

Does anyone know if this piano is indeed any good? According to that review above the ap250 is a decent piano.

thanks

[barricades]

the casio ap245 or the Yamaha P105???

Any ideas anyone?

[hfmadopter]

the casio ap245 or the Yamaha P105???

Any ideas anyone?

Really before you could determine which of those two pianos you would buy you must decide if you want a cabinet style piano or one that is more stage like.

I know nothing about the Ap 245 yet, this is the first I've heard of it actually. The AP 250 is doing well, though even that I have not played on.

The P105 is one I suggest to people now who don't want to spend a lot and want that style piano. I've played one and after doing so I switched my usual suggestion of the Korg Sp170 to the P105 as the first bottom end piano I would suggest at all in that style. The P105 is the very bottom end, IMO, for someone who remotely wants to come close to being serious on a digital piano. That's just based off of my own playing experience in stores incidentally. Dropping below that model you then move into really spongy action etc.

In the end, you have to try them out.

[barricades]

Hi thanks for the response.

I actually don't care if it's a cabinet or a portable or whatevery it looks like or how big it is. I'm purely looking for a proper feel and sound. And sound via headphones is much more important than sound through speakers which I don't really care too much about at all.

Would you choose the ap250 over the yamaha 105?

[hfmadopter]

Hi thanks for the response.

I actually don't care if it's a cabinet or a portable or whatevery it looks like or how big it is. I'm purely looking for a proper feel and sound. And sound via headphones is much more important than sound through speakers which I don't really care too much about at all.

Would you choose the ap250 over the yamaha 105?

Not until I played both ! Seriously, I'd have to play both.

Headphones generally sound pretty decent on most keyboards these days ( you need decent headphones though, my Audio Technica ATH M45s are very nice with a sound you would not think you were listening to in a headphone but there are better yet). Getting speakers to sound as good is another matter. This assuming a good level headphone set, not some cheap game set or some such thing. Touch is what you are after, you want realistic touch. You have two decent options for the money assuming ( you really going to have to give just a bit of leeway at that price point) the 245 is really like the 250 when it comes out.

Got to play it though. I spent 6 months playing keyboards before I bought my Kawai. I already had an idea of what I wanted but waited for some newer models to come out and tried them all over again. I was trying to somewhat match the action of my grand piano and ended up with the Kawai MP6 ( I would have loved the wooden cores of the keys and general action on the MP10 but I had set a ceiling limit too on price). The Yamaha CP 33 action was pretty decent ( professional stage piano, pretty old design now but that wouldn't matter through headphones too much). The Kawai's were to my liking considering it is digital not acoustic.  And so were the Roland upper end models ( msrp $3000 us or there abouts) starting with the RP 700 NX ( I came so close to buying that model on sale for $2400 US!)..

[barricades]

Well I bit the bullet and bought the casio ap245. I couldn't take it any longer! Plus doing my research I found out that the yamaha np30 I have been using (and thought was decent) actually has smaller than normal keys. I don't think the difference is big but the reviews I've read don't sound good!

Anyway, casio here I come. At least it should be a jump up from what I'm used to

[hfmadopter]

That's great! Be sure to let us all know what you think of it along the way.

[barricades]

I got my ap-245 yesterday.

The keys seem really heavy to me. I haven't played a proper piano in a while to be fair, and I've only been playing my yamaha np30 which is meant to feel a bit like a piano but in reality is a little just a decent replication. But I used to play regularly on a couple of different uprights and a grand piano plus any other piano that happened to be around. I've never thought the keys have felt heavy.

That said I've been playing nothing other than my np30 for the past couple of years. I could just be used to it but has anyone else thought casio celviano feels like there's a lot of resistance pressing keys? There's some stuff which I can't do now because the were very light and quick finger movements, now even though I'm hitting them harder, I'm not hitting them enough to make a sound at all!

[hfmadopter]

I suspect after playing the  lower grade keyboard for two years your hands have adjusted to that. You can check the down force of the area around middle C though with a stack of US quarters. If the key kind of floats with 10 or 11 quarters on there that would be fairly average (51-59 grams). If you need a dozen it's getting a bit heavy ( over 60 grams) or more yet it's heavy ( 80-90 grams).

Your older keyboard is probably very light, perhaps 40 grams or less. You can measure that too. If 6 or 7 quarters makes it float it's mighty light. 8-9 is under 50 grams.

[barricades]

Thank you for the tip. A 2 pence piece £ weights 7.12g so 8 of them = 56.96g

When I put 8 of them on the end of the key it floats ok, stick another on and in drops fully. So I guess it's fine. Mad, feels a lot different, I thought that yamaha thing was alright too.

[hfmadopter]

Thank you for the tip. A 2 pence piece £ weights 7.12g so 8 of them = 56.96g

When I put 8 of them on the end of the key it floats ok, stick another on and in drops fully. So I guess it's fine. Mad, feels a lot different, I thought that yamaha thing was alright too.

Completely different action. I would check the Yamaha for weight non the less, as a reference.

56g is not bad. My grand piano is around 52g and I like that weight a lot. My Kawai MP6 is a bit heavier but I'm used to it. I have to keep in mind touching bottom sometimes, by comparison !

We had a poster here who traded in a digital piano and upgrade because the old one was unbearable at 90g.

[barricades]

Hey htmadopter, I appreciate your advice with this.

Can I bother you once more?

I repeated the 2p thing. It's 8 coins before the key drops at all - that's when it starts to 'float'. If I put another 2p on it just floats a little further down.

I sticky taped 11 coins together (= 78.32g) and held it just touching middle c, and let it go. It just about makes the key go down enough to make a faint sound.

So now I'm confused, should I be measuring the weight it takes to first make the key float or the weight it takes to make the key drop completely or somewhere in between?

Thanks

[hfmadopter]

Hey htmadopter, I appreciate your advice with this.

Can I bother you once more?

I repeated the 2p thing. It's 8 coins before the key drops at all - that's when it starts to 'float'. If I put another 2p on it just floats a little further down.

I sticky taped 11 coins together (= 78.32g) and held it just touching middle c, and let it go. It just about makes the key go down enough to make a faint sound.

So now I'm confused, should I be measuring the weight it takes to first make the key float or the weight it takes to make the key drop completely or somewhere in between?

Thanks

Hmm ya, a lot of digitals keyboards are like that. Its not an even down weight is about all I can say. Your old one is probably the same way just lighter overall.

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"not an even down weight"

Yeah, that sums it up perfectly. It should be the same pressure to make the key move and make it sound. It's as if the keys were planted in mud and you can watch them sink but it gets slower the further down they go. You have to push through the note almost.

It's good to hear that a lot of other digitals are the same but annoying all the same. I wish I'd gone to a shop and tried out some first. I need to have a feel of a proper piano again to see for sure but I think my yamaha felt more like what I'd expect than this one.

Are top of the range pianos like this too?

[hfmadopter]

Are top of the range pianos like this too?

Some are yes, though perhaps with less change from top to bottom of the throw distance. This is one reason of several why I always urge to try a piano before you buy ! And, why so many here will not recommend a digital piano at all to an early learner. Things like this are why I tried many models for several months before I bought one myself. My MP6 is the same ( gradual increase in down weight but not spongy feeling at all) but it still feels pretty decent. When I go to play my grand after a long time away on my Kawai, it feels as if the keys want to fall away under my fingers on the second half of the key drop but it's not outrageously so, just noticeable. Within minutes I have readjusted my playing.

Of the pianos I tried the best feeling keyboard was on the Roland RD700NX ( $3000 msrp us, $2700 on sale, I missed a coupon to get it for $2400) but I had no access to top end Kawai pianos ( the MP 6 is mid range). I did not like any of the Casio actions but the 250 wasn't out yet. At that we don't know if your 240 even really has the same action as the 250. The coin test would show you that.

Don't get angry, it's just wasted energy with the same result. I'd go try more pianos out in stores anyway. You can sell this one and get something more suitable to you.

[barricades]

Just an update to hopefully stop someone making the same mistake as me.

I'm sending the casio ap245 back. I'm getting stung £72 for the postage but at least they'll refund my money. After having gone to a few piano shops and trying out some different models I now can see the casio action is pretty crap.

It feels really clunky. The weight of the keys is similar to other digital pianos but it just doesn't feel right. I'd really strongly advise anyone who will listen to avoid casio digital pianos.

The next cheapest from my research is the yamaha 142 which I thought was nice but the keys are a little lighter than a real piano IMO. Next up was the yamaha 162 which is very nice indeed. I would have one right now but I was able to get a good deal on a kawai cn24.

So there you are. It doesn't seem possible to get a realistic digital piano brand new for £500. If you are really on a budget then yamaha 142 is pretty good but if you can afford it yamaha 162 or kawai cn24.

Oh and Casio are crap. Very annoyed that you can spend £500 on something and it's such a poor standard, especially when another £100 gets you something far superior.

[hfmadopter]

All in all good, at least you got your money back. Additionally got out and played several pianos. The Kawai should be in a different league than the Casio and your old piano as well. Hope you like it or even love it ! Let us know how it goes.