6/8 tempo: how to keep the count?

[lorcar]

studying my first piece (Schumann Reiterstuck) in 6/8, not simple but compound then.
Besides using the metronome, is there any advice you feel to share in order to keep the beat correctly in your head while playing?
thanks in advance

[j_menz]

Ditch the metronome and count. ONE two three four five six.

It's where the beats fall that make it compound time, and different from simple 3/4 (in which six quavers are ONE two three four five six).

[faulty_damper]

Just listen and memorize it.  I never count.  If you're counting, you're wasting effort.  You should be able to feel it, not count it.

[j_menz]

You should be able to feel it, not count it.

Agreed that that is the goal, but counting - particularly with a new/unfamiliar rhythm - is an effective way of getting to that point.

[faulty_damper]

Why not just listen to a lot of music in 6/8?  The tempo is pretty obvious if one hears it first.

[j_menz]

Why not just listen to a lot of music in 6/8?  The tempo is pretty obvious if one hears it first.

I assume for "tempo" you actually mean rhythm.  And listening is fine as well. Especially if you tap along. But like many things, you need to know what to listen for as much as what to listen to.  In the case of 6/8, unless you are already familiar with listening for rhythmic subtleties, or already know it's two groups of three, not three groups of two, you may just miss it.

And, when the time comes, there really ain't that much to listen to in 11/8.

[faulty_damper]

I'm using the language of the title of the thread.

I disagree that you need to know what to listen for, as in you need to know it's 6/8.  This meter will just feel like something that is uniquely 6/8.  However, meter is usually taught without context; most classical music is.  And I think this is a mistake.  It's best to listen to music using this meter first to develop the ear, then learn the meter academically.

[j_menz]

I disagree that you need to know what to listen for, as in you need to know it's 6/8.  This meter will just feel like something that is uniquely 6/8. 

It will to anyone who has much of a sense of rhythm. But not everyone has that. I've seen people try to waltz to something in 4/4 time and not notice that something was wrong. Not sure where the OP fits on that spectrum, but not everyone will feel "something that is uniquely 6/8", or anything that is anything in particular at all.

I'm certainly not disparaging listening, or giving these things context. Nor am I disagreeing with the goal of an internalised and developed sense of rhythm. These are, in the end, fundamental to music.  But not everyone starts out from the same place.

[faulty_damper]

I'm more in the side of jazz than classical instruction.  In jazz, you just pick it up and join in without knowing anything academic about meter, except for the "1, 2, and a 1,2,3,4".  The same occurs in Chinese drumming or Indonesian gamelan (without the counting).  You just pick up the meter by listening to it a lot.

[lorcar]

so anything I should listen in particular to get familiar with 6/8 rhythm?
in order to get the compound rhythm the teacher set my metronome in triplets. If I had done it on my own, I would have made a mistake and simply set a tempo of 6 beats

[j_menz]

Barcarolles, Tarantellas.

As an exercise, you could listen to "America" from West Side Story - it moves between 6/8 and 3/4, so you can try an spot the difference.

[faulty_damper]

in order to get the compound rhythm the teacher set my metronome in triplets. If I had done it on my own, I would have made a mistake and simply set a tempo of 6 beats

6/8 has a unique character that other meters don't have.  Just like very few things will sound like a waltz (1 beat with triplets between) so does 6/8 have this character. It's 2 beats of triplets whereas a waltz is 1 beat with triplets.

[momopi]

Barcarolles, Tarantellas.

As an exercise, you could listen to "America" from West Side Story - it moves between 6/8 and 3/4, so you can try an spot the difference.

Are all Barcarolles and Tarantellas in 6/8 rhythm? Why? I had one Barcarolle in the past and it's in 6/8. For me, 6/8 rhythm is like 3/4 rhythm x 2. I counted 1 to 6 but sometimes, I count 1,2,3 1,2,3 with softer accent on the second 1. Cheating.  

[faulty_damper]

Because of the feel.  Also, counting is a pretty ineffective way of figuring out rhythm since it utilizes a different part of the brain that isn't used in music-making.

Anyway, Strong 2-3, weak 2-3.  It should have a lightness on the second triplet.
NOT Strong 2-3, Strong 2-3.  This is a waltz.