Left Hand Octave tremolos in Beethoven's Pathetique First Movement

[derukun]

Okay, I've done a fair amount of reading on the technique for octave tremolos and such, and have read a bit on relaxing when playing and using the wrist. I get the idea of using wrist rotations (side to side movements of wrist) but even so, when playing the octave tremolos I find that my forearms are still aching/sore, and I haven't been able to find a single way (through experimentation) of a positioning or movement that gets rid of the soreness.

Seriously need help with this, university auditions coming up and I don't have much time..

[alpacinator1]

I think the strength of your forearm muscles is the limiting factor here. When I played this piece, it caused forearm pain at first. At one point I actually injured my hand playing it and I couldn't play for a few days. Those octave tremolos are great endurance exercise, though. You will get stronger and stronger until you can make it through the whole piece without that burning sensation. One option might be to play it in the most difficult/painful way you can for a while. Then, when you make the switch to more relaxed forearms and wrist rotations, it will feel much easier.

I'm afraid I can't offer any better advice to improve in time for your audition, though, but this could depend on how soon it is.

[derukun]

From what I recall, its generally discouraged to be relying on muscles and 'endurance training' in piano to make it through difficult pieces... as well as reading that there shouldn't be any pain at all when playing. In fact I have really toned forearms from years and years of playing with incorrect technique.. I might be not relaxing correctly or rotating the wrists properly too, but I've no idea as to how I can actually work towards fixing my incorrect technique..

seeing my piano teacher tomorrow but I'm not sure whether she will be able to help or not (shes able to relax but isn't exactly the best at explaining how to do so)

[j_menz]

From what I recall, its generally discouraged to be relying on muscles and 'endurance training' in piano to make it through difficult pieces... as well as reading that there shouldn't be any pain at all when playing.

Both correct.

For those so called tremolos (they're pretty mild in the greater scheme of things, you'll find), don't rely too much on one single part of your mechanism to do them (in your case, wrist rotation). Get your arm involved. And, most importantly, get those fingers moving too.

[derukun]

Is it normal for my elbow to be moving around?

I just really need to find some way that there's no pain in the forearms -- for those who have played this, maybe you could describe how you played the octaves ?

[j_menz]

Depends a little on what you mean by "moving around". They will probably move a little as you go up and down the keyboard, but they shouldn't really be moving as part of the tremelos.

I chiefly use the fingers (5 & 1 only, btw, thhough some also use 4), with a little help from the wrist and forearm. That help is to support the movement rather than to drive it.

[thesixthsensemusic]

I asked exactly the same question here about a year ago.

The answers I got were similar, and in the end it did help me to sort it out. What you might find helpful is the short tutorial Paul Barton did on this very issue. He didn't explain every aspect in detail but gives you a few general hints that do come in handy.

Here, just have a look/listen;

Regarding the elbow movement, it can be very helpful in counterbalancing the different position of the hand relative to your body when playing the tremolos on different notes. I am not 100% sure about this but I believe it has something to do with moving the centre of gravity of your arm. You can press all these keys using muscle power but leaving as much as possible to gravity and mainly using your own strength to pull them back up is less an effort.

Also, try and keep the fingers in contact with the keys as much as possible, this also saves unnecessary movement.

[derukun]

That video in fact is the one I watched, but find that it didn't exactly help me out too much.. I also watched a video on wrist rotation technique, but even so by the time I'm on the second section of the piece (where the right hand introduces a theme that sounds somewhat like the 3rd movement), my forearms are burning and I just barely make it in time to have a break from the tremolos.

[feddera]

I had the excact same problem. What worked for me, was to practice the "tremolos" with the bass note only. What I mean is, instead of playing 5-1, 5-1, 5-1 etc. in 16th notes, practice 5, 5, 5 with the pinky only, as 8th notes, and with the thumb in the position it should be in to do the full tremolos.

Practice it only like that for a couple of days, and it should be much easier when you finally add the thumb in between.

[kitty on the keys]

That is how I learned the piece. Let the lh pinky keep the pulse...stay on the  cushion  part with the thumb, keep it raised and play near the key bed....and play lightly....also use rotation.

Kitty on the Keys