I get dizziness when i play very fast

[kristinazx]

Hello. Does anybody have this problem. I adore to play Chopins Etudes which are very fast. And when they are real real fast i get diziness and cant look at the piano. Dont know what is causing this problem.. I cant play without looking at the piano..

[awesom_o]

Can you play every single one of Chopin's Etudes?

My advice would be to play them slightly slower and more musically, and see if you still experience problems with dizziness.

Best of luck.

[kristinazx]

Can you play every single one of Chopin's Etudes?

My advice would be to play them slightly slower and more musically, and see if you still experience problems with dizziness.

Best of luck.

haha. Why does it metter do i play all etudes? I dont play all etudes. I play this Etude very long and become faster during time. But now, when I play how it should sound, i get dizzy.. I can play slower, but this etude should be fast. Ashkenazy played it best, how it should sound. I dont want to play slow

[faulty_damper]

Maybe you should breathe.

[awesom_o]

haha. Why does it metter do i play all etudes? I dont play all etudes. I play this Etude very long and become faster during time. But now, when I play how it should sound, i get dizzy.. I can play slower, but this etude should be fast. Ashkenazy played it best, how it should sound. I dont want to play slow

You won't be able to play the first one 'how it should sound' until you've played the other 23. 
 
How do you know Ashkenazy himself didn't feel a bit of dizziness after he played it that one time?

[kristinazx]

Maybe you should breathe.

dont kid me. This is really big problem to me, because when i look at my fingers and if dont look i have too many mistakes.. Do i have some problem with health or what. I realized that many years ago..

Or everybody who plays fast doesnt look fingers? maybe i am insecure in playing

[kristinazx]

i have looked now again Ashkenazy video. He looks constantly at fingers.. So, unfortunately it isnt his problem. So, i have some problem with eyes or head.. Dont know. So only what i can do is to learn to play this piece without looking at fingers.

[cometear]

dont kid me. This is really big problem to me, because when i look at my fingers and if dont look i have too many mistakes.. Do i have some problem with health or what. I realized that many years ago..

Or everybody who plays fast doesnt look fingers? maybe i am insecure in playing

He's being completely serious. Many pianists don't breathe normally when playing. Your fingers are probably not the problem and if you just experience it while playing this etude at a certain speed I wouldn't think it has to do with your health. I would say it is because of your breathing. Make sure your getting enough breath during more focused and mentally demanding parts of it. Maybe you could mark where you get dizzy on the music and try seeing if breathing fixes it. I am not joking and I'm sure faulty_damber was not either. The situation you are in is serious and the problem we are stating is more common than you'd think it just usually does not result in dizziness or anything like that. Also find your tempo ceiling of when you start experiencing some sort of dizziness.

[iansinclair]

I'm not kidding either -- this is almost certainly a breathing problem, and it isn't uncommon.  What happens is that you are concentrating on playing -- in this case, very fast, but it could also be a very complex pattern -- and your brain simply is devoting all of its resources to controlling that activity -- and simply "forgets" to breathe.  Never fear; you won't pass out -- but one may well get dizzy or feel a bit faint or lightheaded.  At some point the autopilot will kick in and two things will happen: you will breathe, and you will probably make a mistake!

Solution -- practice a bit slower and build up your technique and command of the passage(s) in question until you quite literally don't have to think about it at all (you can still watch your fingers, but you aren't telling your fingers in any conscious way where to go or when).

Believe me, I know about this, and have had similar problems...

[kristinazx]

I'm not kidding either -- this is almost certainly a breathing problem, and it isn't uncommon.  What happens is that you are concentrating on playing -- in this case, very fast, but it could also be a very complex pattern -- and your brain simply is devoting all of its resources to controlling that activity -- and simply "forgets" to breathe.  Never fear; you won't pass out -- but one may well get dizzy or feel a bit faint or lightheaded.  At some point the autopilot will kick in and two things will happen: you will breathe, and you will probably make a mistake!

Solution -- practice a bit slower and build up your technique and command of the passage(s) in question until you quite literally don't have to think about it at all (you can still watch your fingers, but you aren't telling your fingers in any conscious way where to go or when).

Believe me, I know about this, and have had similar problems...

Ok. So, i know now, that wasnt kidding. I have had problems when i was a child and we were playing around that i felt some times little bit dizziness. maybe because of excitement? maybe my heart beats stronger when i come at some level of playing and feel excitement. And i dont breath enough so this happens.
yes, and probably i am investing so much energy because i dont play enough so sometimes when i play invest too much effort and energy

[awesom_o]

This piece does take a huge amount of energy to play, though. Of course, you need to harness it efficiently.

You need to build the energy up over time, gradually. 

[Bob]

I was thinking tension of some kind, but breathing (or lack of) makes sense.


You could experiment with it.  Play part of a fast section and then stop. See how you feel.  Or play a slow piece.  Or a medium-tempo piece.  Or a slightly fast piece -- What speed does it kick in?  Does it happen if you just move your fingers fast away from the piano?  Things like that.

[indianajo]

You may have two problems: 1.  oxygen dfficiency  2.  motion sickness from horizontal movements in front of your eyes.  
I have # 2 but not #1.  I work on oxygen sufficiency by walking a lot, carrying my groceries home from the bus stop, chopping up tree branches in the summer. If I haven't done anything aerobic at the end of the day (over 120 bpm for 30 minutes for me), I ride an exercyle indoors and watch music videos on TV.
  I suggest you read Dr Cooper's book Aerobics or one of the later ones, and follow his plan.  I'm 63 and can walk almost 5 miles ( 8 km) in an hour.  How about you? Oxygen sufficiency will be important if you ever get sick like pneumonia or cancer or something.  
#2. If I sit and watch the conveyor go by at the GE Exhibit at DisneyWorld, I get vertigo. Or if I look out the car window sideways without fixing my eyes on one thing, or if I try to read in a car or bus.  Horizontal movement makes me dizzy.  This is not normal, but there is no cure.  Maybe you are getting a similar effect by watching your hand jump around.  
When I was age 8 to my twenties, I could play pieces I had learned without looking at my hands.Age 22 to 33 I had no piano, then played with it but had no time until I quit working.   Now that I am 63, I cannot do without lookiing if there are large jumps, say Scott Joplin the left hand.  As they have a senior Pro Golf League, I don't worry about this.  Muscle feedback is not consistent with 63 year old muscles.  The aged get tired quicker, and we need more warming up to get to a stable state. At 63 some days you may never reach a stable state of muscle tension.  
If you are under 50, practice slowly one hand at a time, until you can play the piece without looking. then put hands together.  Don't look. don't speed up until you are playing perfectly, slowly. Then speed up.
Looking is a crutch for young people, unless you are very different than normal.  Your feedback from your muscles should be good enough that you know where your hands and fingers are.  You can practice this.  
Good luck.  

[gregh]

If you think you have a medical problem, don't ask us about it, SEE A DOCTOR!

The responses you've gotten so far seem reasonable and probably cover the problem. These people know what kinds of problems can come up at the piano. But if it persists, or you're worried about it, a piano forum is not the best place to seek medical advice.

[hfmadopter]

I have a bit of a problem with horizontal travel of my eyes within my the eye sockets. Not so much like indianajo mentions with the moving car but the eyes themselves. If I dart my eyes quickly back and forth over the keyboard I will certainly get dizzy. I don't look at my hands a whole lot when playing though but when I did that happens to me. Now what I do is perhaps look at a trouble spot in one hand and let the other play it's part on it's own. Additionally, if I do need to look up down the keyboard quickly I aid the eye speed with a slight turning o the head. I can sit here at my computer and make myself dizzy just by quickly darting my eyes fast back and forth past the screen for instance. But if I sway my head as well I won't get dizzy.

You don't need a doctor to check that out and see if it bothers you as well but you may to find out why it occurs. I choose to just wag head or work around it as mentioned above already. I see far too many doctors as it is !

Just something to check for yourself as well as breathing.

[kristinazx]

i like very much your answers and this forum. I can see there are quite clever people on this forum.. And everybody is friendly. It is very different from forum, that i used to be.. I dont know whether is always like that but so far is very good.

I like very much this post from indianajo, because i think too that i must to learn these pieces without looking at the piano.. My problem is that i am often lazy and dont want to invest more then 1 hour per day in playing so maybe i dont have results as i want. I play very nice, but am not sure in many pieces, because i dont play enough..

If i would play at least 2 hours per day i would be far far better and more secure in myself.

[hfmadopter]

i like very much your answers and this forum. I can see there are quite clever people on this forum.. And everybody is friendly. It is very different from forum, that i used to be.. I dont know whether is always like that but so far is very good.

I like very much this post from indianajo, because i think too that i must to learn these pieces without looking at the piano.. My problem is that i am often lazy and dont want to invest more then 1 hour per day in playing so maybe i dont have results as i want. I play very nice, but am not sure in many pieces, because i dont play enough..

If i would play at least 2 hours per day i would be far far better and more secure in myself.

Welcome to the forum !! Yes here we do tend to try and help each other out of problem situations and there is a group for about any kind of problem you may have. From learning piano to life situations, we have a place to post it here. We are mostly common folks regarding piano, with some professionals mixed in. And if a subject gets out of hand with someone obnoxious, it's fairly quickly dealt with.

There are a lot of really nice people here who are willing to help or just tell there own story as it may pertain to a subject !!

Enjoy your stay !

[faulty_damper]

My problem is that i am often lazy and dont want to invest more then 1 hour per day in playing so maybe i dont have results as i want. I play very nice, but am not sure in many pieces, because i dont play enough..

If i would play at least 2 hours per day i would be far far better and more secure in myself.

It's not because you're lazy.  It's because you don't know how to play very well or very much which limits how much you practice.  If you knew more repertoire or had the ability to play them, you'd spend more time on them.  It's not the hours.  It's the interest.

Interest doesn't happen automatically.  It requires background knowledge and experience.  The more of it you have, the more interest you'll have.

[indianajo]

Glad I can say something useful to you.
I never practiced more than an hour a day when I was taking lessons age 8 to 16.  I had a lot of homework, band instrument practice too, and I had never been told anybody practiced more than an hour a day.  But it was effective practice; I was learning 8 pieces for AmPianoGuild recital/contest every 6 months, plus the exercise books etc. 
Repeating mistakes is ineffective practice.  It indicates one needs to slow down.  Once one plays a section perfectly (without looking), the cerebellum takes over the learning and you can speed up without "thinking" about it.  I got my strength and flexibility training through exercise books like Schmitt, Berman & Czerny, not from the performance pieces. 
Good luck. 

[kristinazx]

It's not because you're lazy.  It's because you don't know how to play very well or very much which limits how much you practice.  If you knew more repertoire or had the ability to play them, you'd spend more time on them.  It's not the hours.  It's the interest.

Interest doesn't happen automatically.  It requires background knowledge and experience.  The more of it you have, the more interest you'll have.

Even, i told everybody is great in this forum, i dont like very much this answer. Why? You explained all well, but must to dissapoint you. It was just laziness. I have had job, boyfriend, many things, so i didnt have energy also for playing piano for hours. But now, i have more free time, so i can. Today i played 2 hours.

So, only needs energy to invest time in playing. Regarding my knowledge, i can tell i know a lot ( for person which doesnt have musical education). I am playing already 20 years ( i am not professional, but i am very good amateur). Also i am recording my playing and when i play bad, i can correct all mistakes and errors or performance and musical ability.


So, its not that easy, that i dont know much so i dont have interest, because you dont know how long i am playing or anything about me.. And i am telling you in this way, because this doesnt have any sense, because you dont either know my repertoire or anything about me, so i really dont know if you have some Glass ball to predict all?

Regarding my repertoire, I have too many Pieces on my repertoire in fact and play many many things. So, how can you assume that i dont know anything and play very little pieces in repertoire i cant imagine really. Because i dont know if i told that anywhere..

I only so far told that i am having problems to look at the piano when i play fast and that was all about me.Yes. and told that i am momentarily playing only 1 hour a day and that i am not satisfy because 3 years ago i could play even 6 hours per day. So i think that lack of my musical knowledge doesnt have something with interest.. I have big interest, but I have the other things to do too, so often i am not in the mood to invest energy and effort in every piece.  I am playing Sonata Apassionata and many many things momentarily. ( did you finish college of Music or what level you are?)

[kristinazx]

Welcome to the forum !! Yes here we do tend to try and help each other out of problem situations and there is a group for about any kind of problem you may have. From learning piano to life situations, we have a place to post it here. We are mostly common folks regarding piano, with some professionals mixed in. And if a subject gets out of hand with someone obnoxious, it's fairly quickly dealt with.

There are a lot of really nice people here who are willing to help or just tell there own story as it may pertain to a subject !!

Enjoy your stay !

Very nice welcome attitude.. I love when people are not ironic, sarcastic or torture other people, because we dont have all the same knowledge.. Some things i can do better and have more knowledge and some things can do better the other person and have bigger knowledge then me. Nobody knows everything or nothing! But, some people know a few things more then somebody and they think they are of bigger importancy. They dont know, that maybe other person knows the other things better. So to be smug is probably more frequently with stupid people. And people without any real talent in anything

Also i am bit afraid of people who are ironic, sarcastic. They are without emotions i think.. I dont have approach to someone to make him feel stupid. i would feel bad.. And some people like to do that on Internet. Especially on forums where i was going.

I am very happy, if i can find here some normal!!!!!! ( that is the most important) people who are not smug and selfcentred. We are not all the same, arent we?

[kristinazx]

Glad I can say something useful to you.
I never practiced more than an hour a day when I was taking lessons age 8 to 16.  I had a lot of homework, band instrument practice too, and I had never been told anybody practiced more than an hour a day.  But it was effective practice; I was learning 8 pieces for AmPianoGuild recital/contest every 6 months, plus the exercise books etc.  
Repeating mistakes is ineffective practice.  It indicates one needs to slow down.  Once one plays a section perfectly (without looking), the cerebellum takes over the learning and you can speed up without "thinking" about it.  I got my strength and flexibility training through exercise books like Schmitt, Berman & Czerny, not from the performance pieces.  
Good luck.  

yes. i agree with you. BUT i think that 1 hour isnt enough to play like a professional. Then you can play just like good amateur, but not like an excellent amateur.
I would like to play once like professional. And i hope i will come to that level. I know that in the last 3 year i made such a progress. Then i was playing so slowly and today i can play piece of Chopin very quickly. However not like Ashkenazy but i am approaching to him. haha


I know just one thing, that i feel such a bless and happiness when i am playing piano. And that i am not wasting time in vain, but do something best in my life.
I was always such a talent for playing, so damn pity that i didnt study it.
( 2 years ago, I have tried to enroll Academy, but i didnt succeed because of Musical Theory unfortunately.) Its terribly hard to enroll Academy. There are 2 times more student then free places.

BUT i am so happy when i am playing and when i make some progress.. Probably all people here have some similar feeling. And when you have persistency in playing Piano you get good results. they are unavoidable.

So, much better that somebody do something what he has talent, but wasting time in vain with tv, internet and some stupid things!!!

[faulty_damper]

You explained all well, but must to dissapoint you. It was just laziness. I have had job, boyfriend, many things, so i didnt have energy also for playing piano for hours. But now, i have more free time, so i can. Today i played 2 hours.

So you're saying you aren't lazy, just that you have other priorities that are more important to you than playing the piano.  Today, I think I played 30 minutes at most.  And I didn't even trim my nails so they're long and clicky.

[kristinazx]

So you're saying you aren't lazy, just that you have other priorities that are more important to you than playing the piano.  Today, I think I played 30 minutes at most.  And I didn't even trim my nails so they're long and clicky.

What level are you? I am telling you that, because i dont know where did you figure it out, that i have little knowledge and little pieces on Repertoire?

From the glass ball or?  

After 20 years of playing, I am not a beginner thats for sure hahahaha. It was what insulted me a little bit! I am now probably advanced student.. Like 1st or 2nd year of Academy. I dont know Chopin Etude Op 10 no 1 which level is. Or Sonata Apassionata.. 8+


However, in this 20 years was having a pause of 5 years when i played very very rarely.
So now everybody knows everything about me and no need to make presumption. I think that Piano is THE BEST THING that i do in my life.
I dont know to do any thing better.. In all things i am not very good accept in Piano and Painting. I am very good Painter too.

and i hope one day i will reach level of some Concert Pianist and arrange some little concert somewhere. I would be soooooooooo proud to do that. Like nobody! Like i fulfill my GOALLLLLLLLLLL

I WILL not reach that goal probably this year or other, but in 3,4 years will. I would reach that goal other year if i would play like 2,3 hours per day... Because if somebody wants to play a Concert all must be PERFECT.

[kristinazx]

i hope, nobody would be angry on me because of these responses, but i needed to tell that. Because i REALLY really dont like when somebody makes some presumptions about me.. He can just ask!

in many things i am bad, but i know one thing that in piano i am VERY GOOD. nobody can take away that to me! nobody!!!

[faulty_damper]

You specifically used the word "lazy".  There are direct and indirect causes of laziness.  I mentioned some of them previously.  My response was in response to the word "lazy".  Now, when you clarified, you didn't actually mean "lazy".  However, had it been genuine laziness, then my previous comments stand.  Laziness is related to procrastination, one of my areas of expertise.  (I'm an academic psychologist with expertise in learning and memory, emotional behavior, and procrastination.)

Also, I've known people who've played for more than 20 years and while that may seem like a long time, their skills were still mediocre.  That's why they were taking piano lessons.  It's not how long a person does something that determines skill, it's how they spend their time learning that determines it.

Anyway, I didn't mean to insult you since that wasn't my intent.  My intent was to inform and educate as I am a teacher by trade.  As for my level, I can play almost anything I want without technical difficulties.  I make playing look effortless (because it is.)

[kristinazx]

You specifically used the word "lazy".  There are direct and indirect causes of laziness.  I mentioned some of them previously.  My response was in response to the word "lazy".  Now, when you clarified, you didn't actually mean "lazy".  However, had it been genuine laziness, then my previous comments stand.  Laziness is related to procrastination, one of my areas of expertise.  (I'm an academic psychologist with expertise in learning and memory, emotional behavior, and procrastination.)

Also, I've known people who've played for more than 20 years and while that may seem like a long time, their skills were still mediocre.  That's why they were taking piano lessons.  It's not how long a person does something that determines skill, it's how they spend their time learning that determines it.

Anyway, I didn't mean to insult you since that wasn't my intent.  My intent was to inform and educate as I am a teacher by trade.  As for my level, I can play almost anything I want without technical difficulties.  I make playing look effortless (because it is.)

Great. so you are pcychologist and you are analyzing people without any previous knowledge about them? And one word is enough to make a construction about them? And when people explain you how they feel, you dont here anything but you keep repeating words from your first post when you didnt know anything about them. I dont know for your playing, but then either you troll that you are pxychologist, or you are a very very bad one.

Why dont you listen to people, if you are a psychologist, i cant understand?? Some people plays 20 years and not good.. You didnt ever hear me, and you make presumptions of my playing??


p.s. Correction. There are here some kind people and clever and some strange people... But i think, that you are just provoking me and use some psychological game, with me. Thats not good, because professional boxer doesnt beat people around and psychologist doesnt make presumptions using 1 word and then telling " i know all about you, cause i am having diploma from psychology". Its called predicament and if you were psychologist  you would know that all people arent the same...

And this conversation is pointless...I know my reasons why i dont play and you arent living my life just you are a psychologist! my reasons are like in many people that i am lazy, because its not like i prepare some concert or that Piano is my occupation so that i must prepare something in some Deadline.

But the most important thing is that all these years i didnt left piano and i can see very very big improvement. In 3 next years, who knows how am i gonna play. I often choose hard Pieces.
Of course I would easier prepare Pieces for Concert if they are easier.. But i like harder Pieces more and to be more and more good
Btw, i met some shrinks and they were pretty ignorable. Not every person is for any job!

[kristinazx]

When its about psychology I was also interested in that area, but i finished sociology. I know about psychology a lot and i know that roots of laziness arent always lack of knowledge and when you are bad in some area but its often not very interesting choice of Pieces or some interesting material ( in other areas) or that person is a little bit depressed and dont see a point in investing much effort. Also i passed very traumatic period with bad neighbours many years ago and because of them i even stopped playing. So, my metter is more complexed. Now my neighbours are good but maybe i feel sometimes fear that calling police and other things dont repeat again. And torment i passed. Also 3 years ago i have had some goal to enroll Academy and to prepare some Concert and it was my goal and then I started working, want to create a family and it was of bigger priority like with most of women.

Women will put family always in the first place. Even, its not reason of my weak playing since i am not a mother and mothers cant find time for themselves every day 2 hours. Not me. I am just lazy person and often not in a mood for anything... Maybe i am little bit depressed person. I have problems with that from my teen period.Often i dont even want to get out from home. many things involved because i passed some traumatic things in life

[faulty_damper]

My response wasn't directly about you nor was I analyzing you.  I only responded to the word "lazy" which is related to procrastination, one of my areas of expertise.  I responded to elucidate the phenomenon of laziness, which very few people actually know what it is.  You can't purposefully be lazy, just like you can't purposefully procrastinate.  These are just symptoms of the underlying causes.

Also, I'm an academic psychologist, not a therapist.  The two are very different.  One uses evidence, the other not so much.

And why are you being so insecure?  You are being very defensive even after I clarified; you still think I'm attacking you.  I'm not.  Also, to mention again, I have expertise in emotional behavior so if you want me to analyze you, I can from an emotional perspective.

[timothy42b]

A few random thoughts about dizziness.

It seems to me breathing is the most likely, but it may be a combination of things. 

I mark breath spots in the music when I sing or play an instrument.  You may need to do that on piano also, if only to rule it out.

The eye movement makes sense too.

But here's another possibility:  you're looking at your hands, and in doing so you're curling your neck down and forward.  Because you're going fast, you're also tensing up.  This does two things.  It collapses your rib cage, which inhibits getting a full breath.  But also a curled tense neck can put pressure on the blood vessels to the head and limit the blood flow to the brain. 

Looking at your hands is okay, BUT ONLY if your basic posture remains erect and relaxed.  You can't get a good breath with a kinked throat and closed rib cage, but you also can't get your free shoulder movement to play properly, so you'll tense up even more. 

You will have to video yourself to determine what you're doing.  It's almost impossible to tell on your own, even with a mirror.