\"\"
Piano Forum logo

Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12 (Read 2698 times)

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
« on: November 06, 2013, 01:55:45 AM »
Here it is, the last of the 24! Both opuses are complete now.

Unfortunately, I haven't thought too much about cover art. I'm interested in what people here think. My budget isn't large, but I'd like to get a proper CD pressed so I have something nice for people to buy at concerts.

In terms of a program note for the CD insert-I thought perhaps I would write a short reflection on the musical experience of learning and recording them all.

thank you in advance for your input and I hope you enjoy the motion in the ocean!

piano sheet music of Etude


Offline barnardo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 05:21:31 AM »
I thoroughly enjoyed that! A powerful and rich Ocean Etude of which you should be proud. It has been a privilege to hear so much of your journey through opus 10 and 25.

It is an excellent idea for you to make available your achievement on a beautifully presented CD with some personally written notes. I know from my own experience that recitals are the best occasions to sell piano music.

When ordering (pressed) CDs, always take a look at the options for a disc only run. Most CD replicators will only charge an insignificant amount more for 1000 or indeed 3000 CDs than they do for the minimum 400, yet including packaging in the same order for the whole run will add much to your initial bill. As time goes by you can order more cases and notes for an enduring CD like this one.

As for artwork, do you know any young artists whose work you like, who might be flattered to have some complimentary image reused for a cover design? I woke up recently to the possibility of asking a painter (my accomplished sister) and to my delight she was very happy to help out!


Offline cabbynum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 725
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 05:29:33 AM »
As usual you played wonderfully!

This is my 3rd favorite of the Chopin etudes no.1 is op.25 no.7 and no.2 op.25 no.11
You kept everything so clear and you developed each phrase beautifully. Very impressive! Well done.


Also for the artwork you have infinite options. You could have a dramatic picture of you at the piano, even better would be to have the score infront of you while you thoughtfully gaze upon it!
You could have an artist do it. Or even just have it be very simple
 
  "Complete Chopin etudes" title
   "Played by (whatever your name is)" subtitle
Put that in a fancy box and then have literally nothing else on the cd.

I would put the title above the cd hole and the subtitle below it.

The cover of the cd case is have the exact same title and subtitle layout but closer together with a picture of me looking thoughtfully at the score at the piano.
Or maybe a scene from nature
Or maybe macro picture of the hammers on the strings

So many choices!!!
Currently Working on
Liszt Sonata B minor
Dante Sonata
Vallee d'Obermann
Invocation

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10150
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2595
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 11:09:03 AM »
Very nice playing, a certain amount of restraint but still with passion.  Congratulations on completing such a demanding project!

Having gone through the process of getting a CD pressed last year, I might be in a position to offer some advice. Re cover art, you could consider looking through various stock photo sites, where you may find a suitable image for a nominal fee. Bear in mind that if you do use an actual piece of non-stock photo artwork, you may have to (even if you find the image freely available via wikimedia or similar) locate the copyright owner and pay image rights. I paid almost £200 in image rights, but it was for a cover image which I particularly liked and thought highly appropriate. Classical cover artwork is imo generally deeply unimaginative, but such things are a matter of taste. It's stating the obvious, but it's also easily overlooked - you will need a front cover image, a back cover image, and one to be stamped onto the CD itself.

Get the CD replicated, rather than duplicated: I was told replication uses industry standard CDs, whereas duplication is effectively the same as copying a CD at home (degrades more readily). barnardo is right, the bigger your replication order the cheaper it becomes per CD. When I went through this process iirc 1000 was only 30-40% more than 500. Regarding the sleeve notes, the site I used didn't charge significantly more for an 8 or 12 page insert (£20-30, something of that order) than a small 2 page insert, so I wrote full sleeve notes. I had a graphic designer to help me with getting everything put together in the appropriate formats, which I found helpful. Oh, and you'll need to get a barcode (probably UPC format). I used http://www.barcode1.co.uk/ ; they were cheap, but if you go to some sites, you'll end up with the impression the barcode is going to cost hundreds of £/$.

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 01:32:21 PM »
Thanks everyone for your advice! Keep it coming, please.

I am interested in the idea of getting a 'disk-only' replication package.... then I can order packaging options separately according to how many I need.

They say if you are going to sell less than 500 throughout your lifetime, just stick to duplication. A burned disk is more vulnerable to sunlight exposure and will have problems playing in certain players. It is also more easily broken than a pressed disk.

Considering the work that went into this project, paying about $1k for the cost of replication to have a much nicer actual disk seems worth it.

I agree 100% that album art for classical is usually terrible. I would like to break the mold in this regard. I have a friend who is a wonderfully skilled illustrator... but she is extremely busy these days and I don't think she would have a pre-existing piece that would suit this genre.

I guess some high-quality photos showing the atypical nature of my work as a musician might do.

My brother doesn't think that producing a high-quality CD is worthwhile. He thinks it is better to set up a website with snazzy photos and try to generate 'buzz' via social media.

I'm not interested in trying to get buzz though. I just want to sell a good, honest product at a fair price that people are willing to pay.

ronde_des_sylphes,
thank you for describing your experience in getting your CD together. I guess you made it retail-ready, with bar codes and everything!

I'm very interested in starting a recording studio. I have quite a few musical friends, a small space, and four beautiful Steinway D's.

People around me seem convinced that there is no longer a market for classical CD's. Everyone just watches videos on youtube!

Offline ranniks

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 803
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 11:19:07 PM »
Wonderful rendition sir.

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2595
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 12:06:11 AM »

My brother doesn't think that producing a high-quality CD is worthwhile. He thinks it is better to set up a website with snazzy photos and try to generate 'buzz' via social media.

I'm not interested in trying to get buzz though. I just want to sell a good, honest product at a fair price that people are willing to pay.

ronde_des_sylphes,
thank you for describing your experience in getting your CD together. I guess you made it retail-ready, with bar codes and everything!


Why not do both the website AND the retail-ready CD? It really didn't cost me that much extra to deal with the barcodes, etc. And once you've put so much effort into generating a professional finished recording, why not extend the attitude to presentation? Apart from anything else, Amazon and various other outlets require you to have a barcode/UPC before they permit you to sell through them. In passing, you should create/register your own personal ISRC prefix and codes for each track, and get your engineer to embed them into each track on the master disc. An ISRC number is a unique identifier that, amongst other things, enables royalties to be paid to you if you get radio play etc. These are little details, but they mean you will get taken more seriously by the commercial world.

When you're selling the CD, I suspect you'll find that actual physical copies will sell much better in real-life, as it were - like concerts -  but online outlets will also provide an outlet for digital sales. A little warning - don't expect to get rich quick on Spotify sales, btw. You typically get fractions of a cent for each streamed play of a track. And when you have a fully finished product, it might be worthwhile to send it off for review. My limited experience is that "paper" music magazines may not review it (this, I've been told, is because they are primarily interested in official "label" releases) but I did get a couple of reviews by sending it in download format to MusicWeb International, which is a widely read online review site.

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #8 on: November 07, 2013, 07:30:11 PM »
Why not do both the website AND the retail-ready CD? It really didn't cost me that much extra to deal with the barcodes, etc. And once you've put so much effort into generating a professional finished recording, why not extend the attitude to presentation? Apart from anything else, Amazon and various other outlets require you to have a barcode/UPC before they permit you to sell through them. In passing, you should create/register your own personal ISRC prefix and codes for each track, and get your engineer to embed them into each track on the master disc. An ISRC number is a unique identifier that, amongst other things, enables royalties to be paid to you if you get radio play etc. These are little details, but they mean you will get taken more seriously by the commercial world.


Thank you! I'm interested in setting up a website for my girlfriend and myself. We don't perform solo music anymore, and intend on pursuing a professional career as a duo/duet. Our teaching studios are also combined, so we think it makes sense for our website to be about our activities together.  Thanks for the info about ISRC codes. I hope they aren't too pricey to embed. 

I'm not sure whether it is worth the money to get the CD glass-mastered or not. I know I'll sell over 500 copies eventually. Duplication costs so much money and you end up with a product that people barely want to pay $5 for, let alone $10 or $20.

Offline cabbynum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 725
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 06:37:49 AM »
Found out what it would cost to break even and charge $.5-2 more than that per CD. If that goes well, maybe bump it up a bit more.
10bucks is an easy price to sell at because of a 10 dollar bill.
I made some CDS of the sonata I wrote and at my debut concert of it and at my awards concert I sold about 10 for 10bucks. Neither of those crowds were expecting to pay anything and no one knew I was selling a CD. I also had them in paper sleeves with "Clarke at the piano" hand written in sharpie on the disc. But hey I got the whole thing made for free.

Find a fair price, I know I rambled a bit. But there is a point somewhere in there.
Currently Working on
Liszt Sonata B minor
Dante Sonata
Vallee d'Obermann
Invocation

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2595
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 09:23:24 AM »
Thanks for the info about ISRC codes. I hope they aren't too pricey to embed.

I'm not sure whether it is worth the money to get the CD glass-mastered or not. I know I'll sell over 500 copies eventually. Duplication costs so much money and you end up with a product that people barely want to pay $5 for, let alone $10 or $20.

Registration of the ISRCs was completely free. Yes, unfortunately there is a certain expectation nowadays that recordings should be free. I would put the disc on CD Baby or a similar site, and sell in digital format, possibly also as physical CDs (you have both options). Sell physical CDs at concerts, you should have no problem selling a few at $10 each. (CD Baby charge a one-off admin fee of $49 which covers distribution via partner sites like iTunes, but pay you 75% of sales via their site and associated sites - my sales haven't been spectacular, but fairly consistent).

Lastly I'd encourage you to do every aspect with an aim to making it look as professional as possible (after all the playing merits it), and view it as an investment in your future as a musician.

Offline thesixthsensemusic

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #11 on: November 09, 2013, 01:25:45 AM »
Your performances live up to your profile name.

This is really good. No exagerrated sentimentality but just to-the-point playing, with complete technical precision.

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 02:39:05 PM »
Thank you!

Chopin hated the use of 'sentiment' in piano-playing.

Today I am going to work on getting a replication made. I think I can keep the costs quite low on a run of 500 if I don't want fancy cover art and a big insert.

The title of the CD will be

CARLISLE
24
STUDIES
CHOPIN

Offline chicoscalco

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #13 on: December 03, 2013, 09:52:22 PM »
Thank you!

Chopin hated the use of 'sentiment' in piano-playing.

Today I am going to work on getting a replication made. I think I can keep the costs quite low on a run of 500 if I don't want fancy cover art and a big insert.

The title of the CD will be

CARLISLE
24
STUDIES
CHOPIN

I'll buy it!  ;D
Very good rendition sir, bravo.
Chopin First Scherzo
Guarnieri Ponteios
Ravel Sonatine
Rachmaninoff Prelude op. 32 no. 10
Schumann Kinderszenen
Debussy Brouillards
Bach, Bach, Bach...

Offline gvans

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #14 on: December 05, 2013, 12:08:46 AM »
Well played, my friend. Stirring, dramatic, "con fuoco!"
Bravo.

Now then...how again do we get a copy of your CD? Maybe via Amazon?
That's how I sell my books. Works well.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Glenn+Vanstrum

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #15 on: December 05, 2013, 12:32:23 AM »
Right now I'm just selling the CD in small quantities at concerts. I don't know about Amazon. What would a gigantic corporation like that want out of a poor artist in exchange for assistance with helping him to hawk his wares?  ;)

International shipping on individual CD's costs quite a bit more than the CD's themselves...


Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10150
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #16 on: December 05, 2013, 12:42:26 AM »
I don't know about Amazon. What would a gigantic corporation like that want out of a poor artist in exchange for assistance with helping him to hawk his wares?  ;)

You can find that out here.

iTunes and Spotify are other options.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline gvans

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #17 on: December 05, 2013, 01:41:48 AM »
Looks like Amazon would charge about $3.74/CD if you pay the shipping (they'll get you 3.99 for standard shipping). For a $10 dollar CD, not bad. And...you get to advertise on a world-wide sales platform. Another option is FBA, or Fulfillment by Amazon, they keep the shipping and fill the order. Here, you have to keep an eye on inventory. I don't think the fine for inventory kept over one year is bad, but I'm not sure.

Jeff Bezos is kinda weird, I'll concede. But the corporation is not un-friendly to the little guy.

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2595
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #18 on: December 05, 2013, 10:59:06 AM »
I don't know about Amazon. What would a gigantic corporation like that want out of a poor artist in exchange for assistance with helping him to hawk his wares?  ;)

International shipping on individual CD's costs quite a bit more than the CD's themselves...

If you put it on CD Baby, they have a link-up with Amazon (and other sites) and will put it on Amazon/these sites for you as a digital product. If you want, you can also supply CD Baby with physical CDs which they can sell themselves or by acting as distributors to Amazon. You do not need to contact Amazon in any way for this to happen. The one problem with selling physical CDs online is of course the postage costs restocking CD Baby whenever you've sold your stock off! Spotify I'd be wary of. It seems to be used only for streaming, and you get fractions of a cent.

If this helps, this is what I've been receiving after the various vendors have taken their cut, compared with prices charged (you have freedom to set your own levels).

CD Baby physical CD sales @ $13.99 - I get $9.99 of this (temporarily sold out :D)
CD Baby download album @ $8.49 - I get $6.37 to $7.73
CD Baby download track @ $0.99 - $0.74
Amazon MP3 download album @ $8.91 - $5.73
iTunes download album @ $8.91 - $7.65
iTunes download track @ $0.99 - $0.64
Spotify streamed track - has varied from 0.12c to 0.79c. :-O
iTunes streamed track - similar, all <1c

There is an initial one-off setup charge of $49 which you can pay via Paypal, etc. As I said earlier, to do this you absolutely need to sort out UPC barcodes; possibly also ISRC numbers.

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #19 on: December 06, 2013, 02:55:33 PM »
Thank you everyone for your assistance with this!

I think I will keep the CD's for local distribution (I didn't end up getting fancy jewel-case inserts after all-that stuff costs way too much $$ to print), and sell the album digitally over the internet.

My thanks for your ongoing interest and support!

Offline koopakool

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #20 on: December 06, 2013, 06:38:43 PM »
I... I... maybe I'm too emotional today, one of the best ocean I've heard!

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #21 on: December 08, 2013, 03:56:01 AM »
Thank you. This one was a bit last-minute, actually, compared to some of the others.

Of the 24, there are several which I can't imagine myself re-recording in future, no matter how much more skill I develop.

This is one of the ones I would have another crack at one day, although it certainly came out pretty well.

Offline swagmaster420x

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 959
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #22 on: December 08, 2013, 05:42:26 AM »
wow, in my opinion you played it at the perfect speed and with the perfect amount of pedal. i like it considerably better than a bunch of renditions by renowned pianists on youtube

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #23 on: December 08, 2013, 09:57:24 PM »
wow, in my opinion you played it at the perfect speed and with the perfect amount of pedal. i like it considerably better than a bunch of renditions by renowned pianists on youtube

Thank you! I think many people play this one too fast and with too much pedal!

The truth is, it's very difficult to not make mistakes in this etude, and by going faster and using more pedal, people think they can hide the mistakes! This approach works fairly well in live performance, but it doesn't sound so good on recordings!

Offline enochy

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 28
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #24 on: December 11, 2013, 03:05:33 AM »
I think it was amazing with the correct speed and pedal.
I'm more used to hearing it with a faster tempo so yours seem kinda out of place but I don't think you can make it any better.

I could also try to design your cover art. Just message me.

Offline swagmaster420x

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 959
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #25 on: December 11, 2013, 03:40:29 AM »
it sounds so much more powerful and rhythmic when all the notes are played clearly. i really like this recording :P awesome_o, youre so musical1

Offline pianoplunker

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 791
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #26 on: December 11, 2013, 03:45:19 AM »
Here it is, the last of the 24! Both opuses are complete now.

Unfortunately, I haven't thought too much about cover art. I'm interested in what people here think. My budget isn't large, but I'd like to get a proper CD pressed so I have something nice for people to buy at concerts.

In terms of a program note for the CD insert-I thought perhaps I would write a short reflection on the musical experience of learning and recording them all.

thank you in advance for your input and I hope you enjoy the motion in the ocean!

Awesome Awesome_o.  I really liked the "waves". Emotional but not overdone. Do you ever do concerts near San Francisco USA ?  

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #27 on: December 11, 2013, 04:06:19 AM »
Do you ever do concerts near San Francisco USA ?  

Actually, I do from time to time! I have a few friends in the bay area. I lived there when I was a child for several years. It's a very special place to me.

Thanks everyone for your encouraging words. I would like to record more of Chopin's music in the future. Next I will record the Trois Nouvelles Etudes, the Impromptus, the Ballades, and the late Nocturnes. In the mean time I'm very busy with the duet and duo repertoire, some of which I will hopefully share with you all very soon.

Offline cabbynum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 725
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #28 on: December 11, 2013, 04:22:17 AM »
Actually, I do from time to time! I have a few friends in the bay area. I lived there when I was a child for several years. It's a very special place to me.

Thanks everyone for your encouraging words. I would like to record more of Chopin's music in the future. Next I will record the Trois Nouvelles Etudes, the Impromptus, the Ballades, and the late Nocturnes. In the mean time I'm very busy with the duet and duo repertoire, some of which I will hopefully share with you all very soon.

What about Nashville Tennessee? Or anywhere Tennessee?
Currently Working on
Liszt Sonata B minor
Dante Sonata
Vallee d'Obermann
Invocation

Offline awesom_o

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #29 on: December 11, 2013, 05:14:48 AM »
Maybe one day when we get big-time management. We are busy with other things at the moment!

 There are quite a few cello concertos I have to learn before I'm ready for the concert halls of the world. My skill on the fingerboard has a ways to go before it is on par with my skill at the keyboard.

Offline pianoplunker

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 791
Re: Chopin Etude op. 25 no. 12
«Reply #30 on: December 11, 2013, 06:33:53 AM »
Actually, I do from time to time! I have a few friends in the bay area. I lived there when I was a child for several years. It's a very special place to me.

Thanks everyone for your encouraging words. I would like to record more of Chopin's music in the future. Next I will record the Trois Nouvelles Etudes, the Impromptus, the Ballades, and the late Nocturnes. In the mean time I'm very busy with the duet and duo repertoire, some of which I will hopefully share with you all very soon.

another Bay Area person, very cool.