Practicing difficult spots

[1piano4joe]

Firstly, start by analyzing the reasons why you can't play that passage. This isn't always easy because sometimes you just don't know why. It takes a very analytical approach to overcome the difficulties and not just endless repetition. Bernhard says, "Don't be mentally lazy"!

Does a shift in position cause the problem? Is there a change of direction, or a change in the pattern that is creating a mess? and so on.

Bad fingering and wrong movements are often to blame. I have changed fingering on a troublesome passage and the problem disappeared. I have used a correct movement and problems have disappeared. For example, root position arpeggios crossing thumb under can be played rather quickly and legato with the appropriate movement which many people never learn and just learn to use thumb over instead. I know I did this.

Secondly, very often, inefficient practice methods are to blame. Someone here said, "Improving is practicing and if you haven't improved then you haven't practiced"!

I believe there are many more wrong ways to practice a passage and much fewer ideal ones but find them you must. I finally overcame a particularly troublesome passage by practicing it in a different way I hadn't tried before. It worked like a charm. So, I wrote this practice routine right on the score for future reference. I highly, highly recommend this tip.

And that's the point: much time can be saved if your practicing is the result of an analytical check-up of what the problem is and what you need to do to overcome it. Bernhard has said, "A teacher just doesn't teach you but saves you time"!

One has really got to approach problems rationally.

The other thing it takes is setting goals, and not giving up until you have achieved a reasonable portion, if not all, of the goal.  You may be surprised how much your attitude determines whether or not you solve a problem.  It may not be possible to solve everything in one sitting, and especially for passages that have been plaguing you, often times I find all it takes is a determination to succeed and a rational mindset, even if you cannot find the answers immediately.

Goals are the inspiration that will keep you going.  It doesn't help to do anything aimlessly, and it's important to have self-esteem in what you do, and feel a sense of accomplishment.

You should be working to discover whatever is blocking your progress, and then to keep your attention focused on achieving a reasonable amount of your goal.  Not all goals can be finished in one sitting, but you have to have gotten somewhere with it.

This post was inspired from "danny elfboy", "ramseytheii" and "Bernhard". I copied some parts, changed a few words and added some of my own thoughts. I thank them all for their great contributions to this forum.

I hope this is helpful, Joe.

[pianoisthebest23]

Thank you for sharing this here. This is especially useful to me as I always have a few iffy spots in my music that take me AGES to fix. It seems like the more I try to correct them, the worse they get! Frustrating... I will try out these tips today. 

[awesom_o]

The more time you spend practicing a difficult passage out-of-context, the more likely you are to actually screw that passage up in performance.

What you really need to be doing, is playing the work through, from beginning to end, at a manageable enough tempo, that there ARE no 'difficult passages'.


This way, there are never 'difficult passages' per say.

There are only passages which contain certain difficulties.

But since we've practiced the work through in its entirety without having grave difficulties with 'trouble-spots' that we had to slow down for and 'figure out', we should be able to give a relatively seamless performance!

But if you isolate a trouble spot, and practice 'not quite getting it right' a hundred times, it's honestly likely that in performance you will panic, and either have a total blackout, or play the passage in question poorly.

If you are trying to 'learn' a work, and you can't read it through from beginning to end on your very first practice session (not necessarily at full tempo, but certainly in one uninterrupted run at a slow-tempo) then it is highly likely that the work in question is of a complexity level that you are not yet prepared for.

[pianoisthebest23]

What you really need to be doing, is playing the work through, from beginning to end, at a manageable enough tempo, that there ARE no 'difficult passages'.


This way, there are never 'difficult passages' per say.

There are only passages which contain certain difficulties.

This has to be the biggest thing I am working on right now. I always seem to rush into music way too quickly because I want it to sound like it should at performance level, which, let's face it, is not going to happen unless I SLOW DOWN first!! I'm doing better with it than I have in the past but I definitely need to watch myself. 

[lillet]

What you really need to be doing, is playing the work through, from beginning to end, at a manageable enough tempo, that there ARE no 'difficult passages'...
 
...If you are trying to 'learn' a work, and you can't read it through from beginning to end on your very first practice session (not necessarily at full tempo, but certainly in one uninterrupted run at a slow-tempo) then it is highly likely that the work in question is of a complexity level that you are not yet prepared for.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but can you elucidate this point awesom_o? In your opinion, is there a point where a slow-tempo is too slow? Or, provided you can keep an accurate(ish) rhythm can you go as slow as you like?

[iansinclair]

I don't know what awesome will say -- but in my humble opinion yes, there is a definite hazard in playing or practicing something, particularly something near your level of ability, too slowly.  That is that you may come up with a fingering for certain passages which works OK at a slow tempo but which is never going to work when you get up to speed.  Just something to watch for...

Otherwise, I agree with him completely -- particularly about playing and practicing the whole thing, or certainly good sized chunks of it.  If you concentrate on just one difficult passage, then two things are likely to happen: first, it will spook you when you come to it later, particularly under pressure, and second it will be very difficult to get it properly integrated with the rest of the piece.  I would never practice a difficult section alone; begin at the beginning of a phrase at the very least, and don't stop until you get at least to the end of the phrase beyond it -- if not the end of the piece.

[lillet]

...you may come up with a fingering for certain passages which works OK at a slow tempo but which is never going to work when you get up to speed.  Just something to watch for...

...If you concentrate on just one difficult passage, then two things are likely to happen: first, it will spook you when you come to it later, particularly under pressure, and second it will be very difficult to get it properly integrated with the rest of the piece.  I would never practice a difficult section alone; begin at the beginning of a phrase at the very least, and don't stop until you get at least to the end of the phrase beyond it -- if not the end of the piece.

So, the problem is isolating a difficult passage in the strict sense. Whereas taking a phrase which contains a difficult passage and practicing that is less troublesome. Is this correct?

Furthermore, as a student I tend to be working on pieces that are slightly beyond your current level in order to improve. Is there a rough guideline as to how long is too long when it comes to getting passages up to tempo before considering that the piece is too difficult? I am not equating at tempo with performance ready - simply playing the notes at the right speed...

[awesom_o]

I don't know what awesome will say -- but in my humble opinion yes, there is a definite hazard in playing or practicing something, particularly something near your level of ability, too slowly.  That is that you may come up with a fingering for certain passages which works OK at a slow tempo but which is never going to work when you get up to speed.  Just something to watch for...

I would agree that this can be a danger for people! The more experienced one becomes musically, however, I think the less this is likely to occur.

I question what it really means to play or practice something 'near' one's level. What is a person's level of ability? What are levels?

There are many short Baroque works which I study and perform which are only in the levels 2,3,4, or 5, of RCM Syllabus. However, I never actually took exams for those lower-levels. Back in the day when I took my grades 9, 10, and  ARCT examinations, although I well quite well in them, I didn't have nearly a powerful enough technique to play these 'apparently' simple works!

Sorry, Ian. I didn't mean to go off on a rant. It wasn't at all directed at you. Sometimes I just like to think out loud.

[awesom_o]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but can you elucidate this point awesom_o? In your opinion, is there a point where a slow-tempo is too slow? Or, provided you can keep an accurate(ish) rhythm can you go as slow as you like?

I think the slower you go, the more you must focus on creating beautiful rhythm. Beautiful rhythm is always pretty darn accurate. If we fetishize rhythmic accuracy absolutely 100%, it is going to be pretty tough to play the rhythm beautifully, and not like some weird musical robot.

Did you hear the story about Rachmaninoff practicing op. 25/6 by Chopin?

  “I could not believe my ears.  Rachmaninov was practicing Chopin’s Etude in Thirds, but at such a snail’s pace that it took a while to recognize it because so much time elapsed between each finger stroke.  Fascinated, I clocked this remarkable exhibition; twenty seconds per bar was his pace for almost an hour while I waited riveted to the spot, quite unable to ring the bell.” (Abram Chasins)

I can't personally practice quite that slowly yet. My musical concentration is not yet as powerful as Rachmaninoff's undoubtedly was at his peak. But Rachmaninoff knew more than a thing or two about music.... and he clearly saw great value in extremely-slow practicing!

[awesom_o]

This has to be the biggest thing I am working on right now. I always seem to rush into music way too quickly because I want it to sound like it should at performance level, which, let's face it, is not going to happen unless I SLOW DOWN first!! I'm doing better with it than I have in the past but I definitely need to watch myself. 

This can still be a big thing for well-established concert pianists!

If you can overcome this weakness earlier rather than later, your musicianship will develop both hugely and rapidly!

[lillet]

awesome_o, iansinclair and anyone else really: What are your thoughts on the "section practice" as espoused by Bernhard (and others) - whereby a piece is broken up into sections small enough to "master" in 20mins or less, then linked together, etc? In your opinions, could one become a highly competent musician following this path? 

I'm not putting forward my own views: I'm new to this forum, new to piano, new to "practising" and new to having a teacher (third ever lesson this coming Friday). But I have caught the piano bug and as a result I'm looking to practice in the most efficient way possible given my constraints (full time work, competitive athlete).   

[awesom_o]

awesome_o, iansinclair and anyone else really: What are your thoughts on the "section practice" as espoused by Bernhard (and others) - whereby a piece is broken up into sections small enough to "master" in 20mins or less, then linked together, etc? In your opinions, could one become a highly competent musician following this path? 
 

I think there are many ways of becoming a highly competent musician.
IMHO, it's pretty important that each time you practice, you are doing something slightly different from what you were able to do the day before.

I do work on difficult sections, by the way. I have a very good understanding of what I'm doing each time, though.And I have a very specific technique for section work which I never deviate from. I never, ever practice the exact same segment over and over 'not quite getting it'.

I hone in on a tiny enough chunk, perhaps 2-3 measures, that I can get it 'perfect' on the first attempt. Then, I expand the chunk ever so slightly (perhaps a half-measure on either side of the first chunk, depending upon how thorny the passage really is), and make a second 'perfect' pass-through. I do the same thing, expand the chunk slightly, and pass through it 'perfectly', a few more times.

By the 5th or 6th pass I can usually just play the entire page without without much difficulty.

Basically, this is the technique which I use to avoid getting 'spooked' by a difficult passage, which, as iansinclair pointed out, is very likely to happen if you just practice the same difficult spot over and over again.

With the technique I described, you are practicing not making mistakes in that spot, ever. It goes from being a difficult spot to an easy spot, in a very, very small amount of practice time.

Remember! Practice makes PERMANENT.

If the old adage 'practice makes perfect' were really true, the world would be chock full of 'perfect musicians'. It's not!

[pianoisthebest23]

This can still be a big thing for well-established concert pianists!

If you can overcome this weakness earlier rather than later, your musicianship will develop both hugely and rapidly!

I will do my best!