Question On Finger Movement

[johannesbrahms]

In Josef Lhevinne's book, Basic Principles In Pianoforte Playing, he says that he directs his students to play moving their fingers only at the first joint. In other words, the only joint that moves is the one connecting the finger to the hand. The finger is still held curved a bit. Does anyone know why one should play this way?

Thanks in advance!

[faulty_damper]

It's old-school technique.
Anyone who does exactly that will run into issues so I advise against it.

[apollon1717]

It's old-school technique.
Anyone who does exactly that will run into issues so I advise against it.
[/quote
What kind of issues?
What do you mean with old fingerschool?
Never heard about a Levinne student with "issues"....you?

Please elaborate.

[faulty_damper]

Old-school technique: believed piano-playing was a finger activity so it's best to utilize fingers effectively.  The strength of the fingers was determined by the "arch".  This is the premise of how to make fingers strong and effective.

However, if you maximized efficiency of movement, you'll involve movement at all joints of the fingers since it minimizes relying solely on the metacarpophalangeal (MCP) joint, the joint in question here.  The fingers are not levers; they are an extension of the forearm with the angle of attack modified by forearm rotation and wrist movement.  This is a more complex way of thinking about depressing the keys but it's more efficient and effective instead of relying solely on the movement of one joint.

[nyiregyhazi]

In Josef Lhevinne's book, Basic Principles In Pianoforte Playing, he says that he directs his students to play moving their fingers only at the first joint. In other words, the only joint that moves is the one connecting the finger to the hand. The finger is still held curved a bit. Does anyone know why one should play this way?

Thanks in advance!

You need to read between the lines, to fully appreciate what he is saying. Most pianists fail to realise that you need to EXTEND from the other joints, otherwise you'll be sliding about over every single key. Lhevine may not have said this, nor even realised it, but geometry dictates that if you don't create length, you'll be sliding all over the place in order to get the key down, or having to move the whole arm up and down by a large distance for every note (which is totally implausible for insanely fast scales). You can't "hold" it curved, or you'll be both stiff and all over the place. What his comment really means is that you should not generally be actively pulling back from the smaller joints. But they can rarely stay static, as his comment might seem to imply. They need to lengthen out for it to work (from curved to slightly less curved), in the majority of playing. In flat fingered playing they need only lengthen out a touch, as the angle is pretty direct through the key. But if you play with a high arch and angled fingers (like Rubinstein), they need to open out substantially- otherwise pulling back from the knuckle makes for a spectacularly indirect and unstable quality of movement that both fails to send energy productively in to the hammer and also destabilises the position of the entire hand and arm.

If you click on the link under my posts, my most recent article talks a lot more about these issues.

[apollon1717]

Old-school technique: believed piano-playing was a finger activity so it's best to utilize fingers effectively.  The strength of the fingers was determined by the "arch".  This is the premise of how to make fingers strong and effective.

However, if you maximized efficiency of movement, you'll involve movement at all joints of the fingers since it minimizes relying solely on the metacarpophalangeal (MCP) joint, the joint in question here.  The fingers are not levers; they are an extension of the forearm with the angle of attack modified by forearm rotation and wrist movement.  This is a more complex way of thinking about depressing the keys but it's more efficient and effective instead of relying solely on the movement of one joint.

Your explanation is well known and the hints to the Taubman approach are evident.But calling Lhevinne an exponent of the "old finger school" is not correct.He gives enough hints in his little book opposing rigidness and stifness as a result from the that method.
One just needs to listen to his recordings.
In 1993 I played for Shura Sherkasky in a Hotelroom somewhere in Asia.He had an upright piano brought in to let some people play for him.
I tell you..Russian know what they're doing...but they dont tell you everything they know..

I believe that by cultivating a correct well controled finger movement at the metacarpophalangeal joint leads to a much greater  variety in the finer nuances...especially in Debussy,Ravel,Scrjabin Poemes...
 
I agree with you that a coordinated technique,integrating all parts of the playing apparatus is extremely important but needs individual consideration depending on the demands of the score.

Sincerely

[faulty_damper]

Your explanation is well known and the hints to the Taubman approach are evident.

.... Umm.... I don't even do Taubman.

But calling Lhevinne an exponent of the "old finger school" is not correct.
I tell you..Russian know what they're doing...but they dont tell you everything they know..

And so this is the reason this thread was started.

[apollon1717]

.... Umm.... I don't even do Taubman.
And so this is the reason this thread was started.

Oh dear!..

[lostinidlewonder]

... he directs his students to play moving their fingers only at the first joint. In other words, the only joint that moves is the one connecting the finger to the hand. The finger is still held curved a bit. Does anyone know why one should play this way?

If you are talking about how a finger moves you will find it very difficult to produce a sound WITHOUT moving at this point if no other part of the body plays a part in the sound production. It's like saying, you walk by moving your legs at the point it connects to your hip, its like.... that's how a leg moves, but we don't just play piano with the fingers in total isolation to other important parts of our hand/arm body.