1874 Steinway B WORTH RESTORING??

[naesm1]

Hello- I am new here and am hoping someone can give me a little advice. I have been looking for a Steinway for a few months now. I have already purchase a 1928 M but now I have also found a 1874 B and this is the one I am considering purchasing now. To me the price is extremely low at $4,000. I am willing to put money into this for a complete restore and rebuild but only if it's going to be a good financial decision.

So if I do get this can I easily get my money out of it after it's complete? I know there is a lot of variables in this but I would only be using a very good rebuilder and am guessing the cost would be about $20k.

My main question is, were the early Steinway's still great instruments? Or am I better staying with my 1928 M and rebuilding that at some point?

Thanks for any advice.

Sean

[hfmadopter]

I can't say that would be the most efficient means of forced savings or slight profit. Even just banking your money might yield 1-2% and all you have to do is deposit the money. If you were asking is it worth it from a personal view point, because you always wanted an old B, love the tone or what ever else about old B's. Then ya it's worth it.

But then much depends on your personal outlook and market place as well. It could be a total bomb or it could make perfect sense. Do some research in your area but pianos that old that cost too much are hard to unload generally. Unless it's some special instrument.

[naesm1]

I can't say that would be the most efficient means of forced savings or slight profit. Even just banking your money might yield 1-2% and all you have to do is deposit the money. If you were asking is it worth it from a personal view point, because you always wanted an old B, love the tone or what ever else about old B's. Then ya it's worth it.

But then much depends on your personal outlook and market place as well. It could be a total bomb or it could make perfect sense. Do some research in your area but pianos that old that cost too much are hard to unload generally. Unless it's some special instrument.

Ok a little about me, I'm not a pianist. I am mediocre at best. But I love them as furniture, to play, and as a possible investment.

The way I look at it is this, if I send this to Steinway or any other very high end rebuilder I will probably have another 20k into it. So all in that's about 24k for a piano that is as good as a new one that I believe costs about $75k.

You said could be a total bomb? I don't see the downside, unlesss whoever does the work does a terrible job. I could find a single B on ebay that is less than $20k in any condition. I understand this doesn't necessarily mean they are being sold for that.

Thank you for your reply just trying to get my head around all of this.

Sean

[lhorwinkle]

If you think of a piano as an investment ... stop, turn around, and go the other way.

The best pianos (and a fully restored 19th century B might qualify) might keep up with inflation. But that's hardly a good investment.

[naesm1]

Ok so how about this question. What would a 1874 B be worth in the current market after being sent to the Steinway restoration center for a complete rebuild?

[naesm1]

If you think of a piano as an investment ... stop, turn around, and go the other way.

The best pianos (and a fully restored 19th century B might qualify) might keep up with inflation. But that's hardly a good investment.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I very much beg to differ. My first Steinway was an original 1917 O that still played and held a tune very well. I put no money into it other than a tuning and a little bit of regulation work. I loved it and this piano was my favorite thing I have ever owned. I bought  this for $5k in 2006, I sold it in 2009 for $12k. That's a 140% return on investment. A little better than a savings account.   

[hfmadopter]

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I very much beg to differ. My first Steinway was an original 1917 O that still played and held a tune very well. I put no money into it other than a tuning and a little bit of regulation work. I loved it and this piano was my favorite thing I have ever owned. I bought  this for $5k in 2006, I sold it in 2009 for $12k. That's a 140% return on investment. A little better than a savings account.   

Ok you like older pianos, you like to collect and at some point flip pianos. You made 140% doing so on an original condition O. But check your own market for restored pianos, are they willing to say, pay 60K for a restored 1800'sB ? I think the restoration for 20K especially by Steinway is conservative, the piano would have to be assessed and a quote created first. It may be more like 25K. You are paying 4K for it. How much profit do you expect from this instrument and will your own market bear that are the questions you need answered.

I don't think you are being confrontational at all. Actually, if I had a fully restored B I would probably fall in love with it and never sell it, FWIW! However, there is a piano store right down the street from my house and the owner has a hard time selling his restored pianos. People will buy partials, they will buy original condition if the price tickles them. But with good shiny bright new pianos out there these days, it takes a special looker to buy those restored pianos, even at 30K.

Look up Rick Jones Piano, he keeps a running inventory of pianos and has a Steinway gallery. Look at his prices and they all come with a 10 year warranty from him. He ships all over the US. You might find a way of comparing there better than here.

[naesm1]

There is a 1933 and 1959 B both selling for $39K on Rick Jones Pianos. Both are ebony and one is restored and one isn't.

It's not that I want to flip the piano or even sell it. But I do want to know if I will be able to get my money out of. For example if I could completely rebuild it and sell it for 10 years for $35k and have enjoyed it all that time that's a huge win for me. This isn't about making money but it is about putting my money to good use. Plus now, I also bought an M and can't keep them both.  

I have heard that after 80 years or so the soundboards flatten out, but this piano still has excellent sustain. I am not trained to know what is good or not but I have heard this is a good indication.

[hfmadopter]

A trained tech can help you best in discussing sound boards. My personal experience though, indicates that beat up up or old sound boards is an over rated subject, unless loose and buzzing. Then it needs proper repair or replace it.

How about just purchasing one outright from rickjonespiano, 10 year warranty and money back on an upgraded purchase in that ten years sounds pretty inviting.

[indianajo]

If you play, hassling with moving an old Steinway to the restorer and back may be worth it.
But if you don't play, you can't even assess the device yourself for condition without paying an expert.  Bad business plan.  There are as many experts as phone numbers, and most of them are trying to sell a nice new imported piano because they make so much money by employing serfs to do the work.  Legions of salesmen will be telling your potential customers how stupid buying an old piano is.
Since I quit working and started following the stock market more closely, I've more than doubled my retirement funds in five years.  That is a much better investment. A better use for your time, and no hernias required moving stuff around.     
I've got some old pianos, and enjoy listening to them play.  If you want collectables, find something that you know more about. And be aware you have to fill out special tax forms for the 28% rate if you actually make a profit on one.  You can't hide a restored Steinway as a cash transaction, it would be more than $10000 and require reporting by the banks. 

[perfectlygrand]

naesm1 - just so you know, the piano market has declined dramatically since 2009 and is now only starting to rebound.  Since 2009 half the piano dealers in this country went out of business.  That 1917 O that you got $12K for you would not get that now.  hfmadopter is right when he says $20k is conservative for quality work - (I used to be a Steinway Rebuilder) I'd figure for sure $25k for everything.  I suggest you use that figure plus your initial investment and look at www.pianomart.com for comps.  As far as what Rick Jones is asking - remember that he could be a car salesman too - meaning the asking price has little to do with what they are selling for. 
Who knows where the piano market will be in 10 years - if the housing market rebounds (which the piano market is tied too) then things will be better in our world and maybe you'll realize some profit.

Charles
perfectlygrand.com

[lostinidlewonder]

My main question is, were the early Steinway's still great instruments? Or am I better staying with my 1928 M and rebuilding that at some point?

It seems you already have one project to work with. If you have an excellent Steinway restorer living in your area then it might be a good idea to buy both. I have found that final results of a restoration rests heavily on the skills of the restorer. I am still yet to hear a restoration which brings a piano completely back to full life, there is always something disappointing about a restored piano I guess that is the nature of restored pianos. I compare the price of restoration to buying a new instrument or good deal 2nd hand one at the same price, pretty much always I discover that avoiding restoration will get you more bang for your buck. If Steinways are your passion and excite you then why not get another one!! There are much more expensive hobbies thats for sure!

[awesom_o]

The earliest Steinway B's are 6'8 and have 85-keys. They have the potential to be great instruments, and the extra three keys in the treble are almost never required in the standard repertoire.

Fully restored Steinway pianos do have the potential to play better than new ones, if the skill level of the restorer is extremely high.

If you are interested in acquiring this model as a rebuildable core, plan to budget about 8k for a complete new action, 8k for new belly and guts, and 8k for complete refinishing of the cabinet. If you acquired the core for 4k, you could potentially keep your total cost for the piano under 30k.

This is about 1/3 of the selling price of a new Steinway B.

[samlee]

Hi I am new to this forum and came across this discussion.

I saw a 1887 Steinway B restored by Steinway Restoration Centre in London selling for over US$100,000.  How come this is so much?

For this price, is it better to buy a brand new piano?

[cabbynum]

I'm gonna sound like an ass, but if you're buying a piano for furniture then you don't deserve one...