What has improved your sight reading the most?

[lostinidlewonder]

1) What improved your sight reading the most as a Beginner pianist?
2) What improved your sight reading the most as an Intermediate pianist?
3) What improved your sight reading the most as an Advanced pianist?


Some of you can answer all three, some only certain ones.

[lostinidlewonder]

1) Learning where all the C's are written on the stave to find postion at the keyboard faster. Using only the space notes the read the lines (Eg: using FACE only in the treble and reading the lines as either one higher or lower than those space notes). Noticing when the fingers have to move position or stay in the same position.

2) Seeing shape at the keyboard based on scale, chord, arpeggio patterns and also becoming more familiar with these general fingering options and movements. Being able to listen to myself play pieces at ultra slow tempo and not lose the musical sense.

3) Sight reading Bach, especially fugues from WTC.

[j_menz]

Sight reading Bach, especially fugues from WTC.

I thought I was the only one who did this for fun and relaxation.  Not just the WTC, though. 48 isn't enough.

Sightreading has never been a real issue for me. Obviously, I have always wanted to be better at it (or at least be able to read more/harder pieces), but it has pretty much always been a matter of technical proficiency more generally. In other words, my reading has always born about the same relationship to my overall ability.

It is clear that from what others say here from time to time, they do have specific issues, but I'm rather inclined to think that it is just that they haven't done enough of it. And "enough" is lots!

I've also never memorised anything in my life, so my relationship to the page is perhaps closer than most. There may be a relationship here, between facility of memorising and facility of reading, but I can't really say what it might be.

[iansinclair]

1) Learning where all the C's are written on the stave to find postion at the keyboard faster. Using only the space notes the read the lines (Eg: using FACE only in the treble and reading the lines as either one higher or lower than those space notes). Noticing when the fingers have to move position or stay in the same position.

2) Seeing shape at the keyboard based on scale, chord, arpeggio patterns and also becoming more familiar with these general fingering options and movements. Being able to listen to myself play pieces at ultra slow tempo and not lose the musical sense.

3) Sight reading Bach, especially fugues from WTC.

All of the above.  But there is no substitute for sheer panic when the priest changes the hymn five minutes before the service...

[lostinidlewonder]

I thought I was the only one who did this for fun and relaxation.  Not just the WTC, though. 48 isn't enough.

Oh you are very right there, 48 is just the start huh! I was given the 2 books of the WTC from one of my teachers at an early age, I used to try to read it but never really could until I advanced a little more. I can still remember finally opening the WTC and reading through it, there was just an immediate revelation which struck me and the following few days was just magical.

Sightreading has never been a real issue for me. Obviously, I have always wanted to be better at it (or at least be able to read more/harder pieces), but it has pretty much always been a matter of technical proficiency more generally. In other words, my reading has always born about the same
relationship to my overall ability.

That really interests me and I see this in my students as well. I was opposite though, I learned by ear very early on and as a preteen relied on memorisation. Later I focused on sight reading which I really think should have been done earlier on but it is good to see it is a skill that certainly can be learned later on!

I've also never memorised anything in my life, so my relationship to the page is perhaps closer than most. There may be a relationship here, between facility of memorising and facility of reading, but I can't really say what it might be.

This is something that is peculiar to me but of course quite commonly seen. If I sight read something enough times it predominantly becomes memorized if I like it or not. I guess this is because of my memorisation/ear playing when I was younger. But I think sight readers like yourself do memorize its just that you need less info on the page to queue your movements, but I know what you mean, take away the sheets and its very difficult!

[lostinidlewonder]

All of the above.  But there is no substitute for sheer panic when the priest changes the hymn five minutes before the service...

Lol! I remember being asked to transpose a piece (on a real piano) on the spot so they could accompany and I was like... Yeah right lol Give me a digital piano we have no need for such silliness these days ahaha

[outin]

1) What improved your sight reading the most as a Beginner pianist?
2) What improved your sight reading the most as an Intermediate pianist?

Deliberate practice. Just randomly reading things.

Unfortunately it still has not improved my reading enough. I am open to suggestions. Learning scales has not helped with my inability to remember the key while playing. I still misread certain individual notes and patterns again and again while playing. I get tired easily when trying to follow the score and some type of note writing actually makes me dizzy.

[j_menz]

I get tired easily when trying to follow the score and some type of note writing actually makes me dizzy.

Haha. That doesn't necessarily stop entirely. One of my more recent acquisitions was Mikhashoff's Portrait of Madame Butterfly.  All nicely printed and bound, but actually it's a copy of the manuscript. Random lines left blank. Staff clefs missing. Variable as to 2 or 3 staves, and appalling handwriting and enough (vaguely positioned) accidentals to keep a small country in the things for years.  

In the olden days, such was a great deal more common, yet we wonder why so many pianists took to drink!

EDIT: For those unfamiliar with him, Yvar Mikhashoff wrote a number of truly lovely operatically inspired works in the tradition of earlier pianist composers, such as Liszt. Interestingly his performing/teaching career seems to have been in the modernist genre.

This is the piece I mentioned above:

[outin]

Haha. That doesn't necessarily stop entirely. One of my more recent acquisitions was Mikhashoff's Portrait of Madame Butterfly.  All nicely printed and bound, but actually it's a copy of the manuscript. Random lines left blank. Staff clefs missing. Variable as to 2 or 3 staves, and appalling handwriting and enough (vaguely positioned) accidentals to keep a small country in the things for years. 

In the olden days, such was a great deal more common, yet we wonder why so many pianists took to drink!

I was going to learn nocturne 15-3 but I couldn't because I cannot even look at page 3. Those sharps and naturals just start dancing in my eyes and I get nauseous:(

Alcohol might help, but do I really have to start drinking again 

[j_menz]

I was going to learn nocturne 15-3 but I couldn't because I cannot even look at page 3. Those sharps and naturals just start dancing in my eyes and I get nauseous:(

Alcohol might help, but do I really have to start drinking again 

And a double sharp.

Two things - since you have moved into keys with all sharps, the naturals in front of the B and E shouldn't distract you. Just take them as read (but look out for modulating back).

For the rest, look for the "biggest" sharp. Sharps appear in the order FCGDAEB (double sharps repeat that order but count doubly).  So the "biggest" sharp is the one furthest along that list.  If you know that one, you know all the lesser ones too, so you don't so much have to "see" the accidentals as check that they're there. Cut's down on the brainwork.

So, in that nocturne, if you've got an E sharp, you know that FGAC and D are all going to be sharp too and all you need to do is double check that that's the case (some composers, mostly in more advanced stuff, break those rules, but Chopin here seems to follow them).

[outin]

And a double sharp.

Two things - since you have moved into keys with all sharps, the naturals in front of the B and E shouldn't distract you. Just take them as read (but look out for modulating back).

For the rest, look for the "biggest" sharp. Sharps appear in the order FCGDAEB (double sharps repeat that order but count doubly).  So the "biggest" sharp is the one furthest along that list.  If you know that one, you know all the lesser ones too, so you don't so much have to "see" the accidentals as check that they're there. Cut's down on the brainwork.

So, in that nocturne, if you've got an E sharp, you know that FGAC and D are all going to be sharp too and all you need to do is double check that that's the case (some composers, mostly in more advanced stuff, break those rules, but Chopin here seems to follow them).

I think you misunderstood. It's not that I have trouble understanding those, but the note layout literally makes me feel dizzy. I am weird that way. Colour orange also makes me feel sick 

[nanabush]

I think I'm pretty damn badass at sight reading.  In high school, before IMSLP took off, I'd search and search for PDFs of music that was way too hard for me (Ondine... I remember looking at that when I was 14 and being like what!).

I guess I remember putting lots of time at cracking the 'code' on difficult pieces.  Seeing how far I could get into them.  I'd go back to my Grade 9 RCM stuff and find it slightly easier... by the time I started working on the ARCT (which I was excited to get into), I could sight read pretty big portions of the pieces.

Some of my friends from University will only focus on their current rep, but I was always nabbing other pieces, trying little bits of this and that, and just becoming familiar with as much rep as possible.

So I'd say that setting a pretty high bar, giving myself exercises (without even knowing...) and trying to learn 16 bars of Ondine when I was still just starting my first Prelude and Fugue; that kind of thing... it just allowed me to get more used to solving the 'problems' associated with sight reading faster.

I have a hard time sight reading Bach though... there's more to it than melody and accompaniment...not knowing when the RH takes over an inner line written in Bass Clef makes it really hard to just read on the spot...  Debussy though, I could probably 'wing it' with any of the Preludes at first sight and not get booed off stage.

[awesom_o]

Playing duets has helped my sightreading the most!

[chicoscalco]

Sight reading fugues has always been the most helpful for me. Not just fugues actually, but any polyphonic playing. The Art of Fugue, although I do believe it is miles from my actual level, has helped me a lot with my sight reading.

[oxy60]

Single focus glasses!

[j_menz]

Single focus glasses!

Haha. That is so true! Same here.

[g_s_223]

In younger days I played through a lot of piano arrangements of the standard symphonic repetoire, and also opera and oratorio vocal scores. With these, the idea is to keep up the momentum of the piece rather than work on perfecting details - they aren't usually very "pianistic", but are still useful.

[lostinidlewonder]

I think listening to music and following it with the sheets is also an important habit to develop. Often we are caught up playing so much that the flow of reading does not become familiar, I found listening/reading was quite beneficial.

[lostinidlewonder]

I think accompaniment is quite good as well because it teaches you to stay in time with others. When playing a solo instrument you often can go off on your own direction, when playing with others you have to maintain strictness to your timing. I think this has a lot of benefits to your reading as you may even section the bars into their beats to strive and keep in time with everyone else.


One good practicing skill I found was playing easy music fast ignoring rhythms, dynamics etc and never stopping when making mistake, this helps develop speed of reading. Then getting difficult music, reading it super slow without errors, ignore rhythm/dynamics can help with accuracy. For training rhythm I found rhythmic solfege helps (eg: Takadimi system). Also reading contemporary music which has many simple to read rhythmic devices can help.

[oxy60]

Haha. That is so true! Same here.

And I discovered it by accident when my multi-focus were in the shop.

[hfmadopter]

And I discovered it by accident when my multi-focus were in the shop.

For me regarding glasses, it was suggested by my optician to buy drug store glasses 1 power lower than my script glasses. Well that was a bit better but two down was better yet. That and turning up the lights. I was having a bugger of a time reading music, getting headaches and thinking boy I've aged and can't concentrate. Well the first part is true, I've aged but couldn't see ! Funny thing is I was thinking stronger glasses, special glasses etc. etc., I couldn't believe he suggested a plain old $5-$10 solution and besides that it worked, where I have astigmatism in both eyes.. Changing glasses power is usually a nightmare, not this time.

[iansinclair]

Indeed the right glasses (if you are older, like me!) are so important!  I have two sets, both bifocal -- one distant/reading, and one music rack/reading.  Helps a lot.

Cleaning them helps too...

More seriously, really learning to see and feel the shape of the music is important -- chances are, particularly on a first run through, you won't hit all the notes anyway.  What you do want to do is to get the shape of phrases and melodic line(s)(plural in counterpoint) and the basic harmony right...

[oxy60]

The single focus were made for computer monitors on a desk. It works out that my music rack is the same distance as the big monitors and bingo an old pair of glasses gets a new life.

With my multifocals the sweet spot kept getting smaller.

[lostinidlewonder]

Are these responses the limits of members experience in sight reading here??? Golly, doesn't seem like we have many serious pianists here at all. What happened to all these experts we are supposed to have here?

[awesom_o]

You should try reading some duets with me....

All I can say is, my sight-reading has gone hand-in-hand with my actual playing skills. As the latter improved, so did the former.

[j_menz]

You should try reading some duets with me....

Is your duetting different from the norm so as to give it special potency?

[awesom_o]

I would say duets are what I spend the most time on now. There is no norm with duets. Normal pianists avoid them like the plague.

[awesom_o]

Duet playing is really helpful with teaching you to play without looking down at the hands.

[j_menz]

Duet playing is really helpful with teaching you to play without looking down at the hands.

Sightreading anything reasonably advanced both encourages and requires this, even if you do it alone.  I'm not disputing its importance, by the way. I suspect the need to look at one's hands is a major reason for some, at least, people finding sightreading difficult.

One benefit that comes later on is that eventually you reach pieces where you actually can't look at both hands and they each need to do something which, up til then, you have navigated only by looking (such as different "leaps" in each hand at opposite ends of the keyboard). Good sightreaders don't even notice, but for others it constitutes a major hurdle.

[pianoplunker]

Recently, Beethoven has improved my sight reading.

Currently not sight reading Ecoisses , but have found it a wonderful piece not only for sight reading but actually helps my hands.

Have  been sightreading to a train-wreck  Rondo a Cappricio in G and decided to actually practice this piece. So far I have to figure out how fast I could actually play it . It is a very funny piece of music.   

[hfmadopter]

Are these responses the limits of members experience in sight reading here??? Golly, doesn't seem like we have many serious pianists here at all. What happened to all these experts we are supposed to have here?

I seriously doubt that you are reading the limits of peoples experiences with sight reading within the thread. Just pieces there of. However in terms of reading, one must see the sheet first and even after years of reading if the eyes start whacking out on you, it's glorious when you find a simple fix that you had not thought of the answer to ! When you look up at the sheet and see two notes where there is one till the eyes focus in and then look down at the key board and it seems to have a curve either horizontally or both horizontally and also up in the center, then you get head aches, watery eyes and eye strain from your normal prescription and blurry everything with no glasses and still headaches. Along comes a $10 solution, is like a miracle happening, yet so simple. If it hasn't been the case for someone else that's wonderful for them, but to others the info might be useful.

Meanwhile, simply reading more music has helped marvelously for me. I will never be a sight unseen sight reader though. To just pick up a more advanced sheet and play the piece is not happening in my lifetime, there isn't enough time left for that to happen. I'm happy to be able to do what I can as it is and very happy to see the sheet and keyboard look normal to me again as well. Regardless of other members position on the matter.

Hey, someone might come along and a post a whole books worth of information on sight reading within the thread, then someone will complain it's too long !! Never know, the thread may not be over just yet. Maybe meanwhile just take all the snippets and put them together and still end up with something pretty good, even if just a simple piece of knowledge unknown to that read previously.

[gvans]

lost-in-idle-wonder is still young (what, 32?). He'll have more sympathy for us visually impaired oldsters if--and when--he becomes one himself. Wait till he hits 45 and gets his first pair of reading specs.

The big breakthrough for me in sight-reading was a concert violinist (Eric Lewis, MSQ) who kindly read Mozart and Beethoven duos with me once a week in college. What a joy. True, you can sight-read solo and try to force yourself to stick to the rhythm without lapses, but with ensemble playing of any kind (this would include four-hands work on one or two pianos), you just gotta keep on keepin' on.

Sometimes in chamber music I am forced to do a cold read of something difficult. The best solution I've found is to leave out unimportant bits, even drop out a hand, and hit only key notes. If you plan to perform the piece, you can always go back and learn it properly. With chamber music, you must also keep an eye on the other parts, too, to make sure the whole group is together and not de-railed. Now that's sight-reading. Of course, to do this you can't really take your eyes off the score.

Time spent listening to recordings with scores is also invaluable, IMO.
Cheers,

Glenn

[khantallis123]

Sightread for fun. Train your memory. Learn the notes.

[timothy42b]

lost-in-idle-wonder is still young (what, 32?). He'll have more sympathy for us visually impaired oldsters if--and when--he becomes one himself. Wait till he hits 45 and gets his first pair of reading specs.

I went to single vision glasses years ago.  It was that, or abandon ensemble playing.

But I've only very recently discovered the huge difference really bright light makes.  Try it, under really bright light I can get by with bifocals. 

As far as sightreading, you can only sightread stuff that's easy enough for you to play.  So the first step is learn to play harder stuff.  That's a necessary but not sufficient condition - lots of people can play advanced pieces but not sightread well.  But the opposite is never true - there are no good sightreaders who are poor players. 

[cometear]

1) Knowing the stave.
2) Sightreading from a hymnal.
3) Fugues and other contrapuntal works.

[michaeljames]

I find this question really funny, for some reason.  I think I've always been a good sight reader, truthfully.  Once you've learned to "read" and know music scores and where the keys on the piano are located, you've arrived.

I accompanied choirs all through school, starting in 5th grade and I was the accompanist all of the way through my senior year.  I believe sight reading every day probably helped develop my skills.

Also, from the moment I started piano lessons, I played every spare minute of every day. I was always assigned at least two pieces by my teachers, and I would work on them for a while, but I always would read and play anything/everything I could get my hands on.  My mother was a pianist so she had a LOT of music in her library, which helped me tremendously.  

There are people who read the written word very slowly.  I have to assume there are also those who simply cannot read music quickly, too.  I'm grateful I have sight reading skills!

[the_fervid_pig]

I was going to learn nocturne 15-3 but I couldn't because I cannot even look at page 3. Those sharps and naturals just start dancing in my eyes and I get nauseous:(

Started learning that, the first page or so I had down in a couple of weeks, the crescendo I ground to a halt, even memorising it didn't work, that was about 6 months ago and I'm no further on. I really want to play it!

[tromboneal]

For me, the answers are (1) Hiring a teacher, (2) Consciously looking ahead and (3) attending to intervals instead of notes.

I've spent the last six years working on my sight-reading (usually 1-3 hours per day) and I wrote a book about my experiences (see my signature).  Here's a short summary from one of the last chapters:

Sight-Reading Dos and Don'ts

On the title page, I suggested that you “Follow my quest for sight-reading nirvana, and learn what you should and shouldn't do.”  So, even though I never reached sight-reading nirvana, here are some sight-reading dos and don'ts that I've discovered:
● Do hire a teacher who is good at sight-reading, and good at teaching. If  I'd done that on my first day, I think I would have doubled my first year progress (woulda, shoulda, coulda, huh?).
● Don't assume that if you just sight-read a lot, you will get better. This may be true for some people, but you'll probably get better faster if you practice the right way.
● Do learn to pay attention to intervals rather than notes. It's easier said than done, but worth the effort.
● Don't look at your hands.
● Do endeavor to look ahead as you read.
● Don't try to look way ahead – a note or two ahead may be all you need.
● Do be annoyed that the positions on the treble and bass clef represent different notes, but deal with it because it's not going to change.
● Do play at a steady pace and don't stop to fix mistakes. Playing along with someone else is a great way to force you to keep going.
● Do practice playing with your eyes closed. It's challenging and fun, and helps you find keys without looking.
● Do read through hymnals, but realize that you also need to practice with other types of music.
● Don't assume that one two-hour session of sight-reading is as good as four half-hour sessions.
● Do make a recording of your sight-reading when you start out so that you will be able hear your progress as you go along.
● Do leave stuff out. That is, instead of slowing down, leave out some harmony notes, for example. This is a skill that should be practiced.
● Do enjoy your playing rather than just seeing it as a means to an end.

[lostinidlewonder]

It's been a while but maybe some people can offer some more advice and those who currently post about reading might get some ideas here.

[xdjuicebox]

Beginner: Scales, scales, scales...and writing the note names next to the lines/spaces at the beginning of each staff lol

Intermediate: More scales, learning all of my chords

Advanced: Being able to play without looking

Though I'm not even that good of a reader so take that with a grain of salt

[jianxli]

When people mention "sight reading", does it mean play the notes out straight-away on the piano (no prior practising of the piece), or mean reading the sheet music, say, on a bus or train?

[briansaddleback]

Hand grips.

[lostinidlewonder]

When people mention "sight reading", does it mean play the notes out straight-away on the piano (no prior practising of the piece), or mean reading the sheet music, say, on a bus or train?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sight-reading

I think sight reading doesn't necessarily have to only occur on the first read of a piece. Certainly memorization creeps in the more you read a single piece but this doesn't mean sight reading skills are eliminated. Hearing a piece (in your ear or head) and following the score is also one handy way to practice reading without the challenges of the playing mechanisms interrupting you, your sense of beat, timing, pattern recognition etc certainly can be sharpened.

[timothy42b]

Advanced: Being able to play without looking

If by that you mean an awareness of keyboard geography, and the ability to move a desired finger to the desired key, that is not an advanced skill.

It is the very first beginner step in sightreading.  It is a "necessary but not sufficient" condition for good sightreading, in maths terms.

[lostinidlewonder]

With many of my students to train their sense of timing I will get them to play a piece with me, they have one hand while I play the other. Often I do this just to warm them up for the lesson or when we are exploring a new piece. Some students really respond this well and can feeling timing a lot easier when reacting with the teacher who plays the strict timing with them.

I have some students who only study with me to develop sight reading. These students often do 100+ pieces a month, churn out heaps of pieces, read a lot and pieces which predominantly they can successfully read with a little challenge. They also study "difficult" music and slow the tempo right down. Generally most students improve a great deal by actually starting a reading regieme but not just any pieces, pieces which they can successfully read mixed with challenging and very difficult. Having a sense for what your actual reading level is through observing your abilities with various pieces is quite a revelation.