I've noticing myself becoming situated in only the classical era music

[cometear]

Hi everyone! I noticed recently that I haven't taken much interest in any Romantic composers except the early ones. I love some Contemporary composers like Prokofiev and some of Bartok but I feel that my technique and mental determination isn't up to stuff like that yet. I've been listening to a lot of Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven lately and I just notice myself liking it. Should I try to take on some Romantic pieces? Maybe Chopin to start? I'm not sure if my specific liking is a good or bad thing. Talk to me

[j_menz]

First off, neither Prokofiev nor Bartok are contemporary. They are both dead, and have been for quite some time.

My advice, though, is to listen to as much as you can from as many different periods as you can. Not just piano, either. And not just "art music".  YT is great for this, just use the suggested links at random, or go through the "what are you listening to now" thread in the miscellaneous board here on PS. 

Also, follow your tastes - if you like something, listen to other pieces by that composer. See who taught them, and who they taught. Follow your nose.

If you don't like something, leave it - but come back to it later. Never write anything off completely.

[jonathanbaker]

Hi everyone! I noticed recently that I haven't taken much interest in any Romantic composers except the early ones. I love some Contemporary composers like Prokofiev and some of Bartok but I feel that my technique and mental determination isn't up to stuff like that yet. I've been listening to a lot of Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven lately and I just notice myself liking it. Should I try to take on some Romantic pieces? Maybe Chopin to start? I'm not sure if my specific liking is a good or bad thing. Talk to me

Hello Cometear,

As an exercise in exploration, it might be interesting to pursue music connections between the music you love and its relation to music before and after.  Let me explain: for instance, is someone loved J.S. Bach's music, it is interesting to learn a few pieces by later composers to also loved his music and were inspired by it: Chopin worshipped Bach and studied his counterpoint assiduously - this shows clearly in Chopin's music. Chopin's etude in C major was directly influenced by Bach (see Well-Tempered Clavier). Chopin also adored Mozart, and although the Chopin waltzes have no obvious stylistic connection to Mozart, they exhibit the same sense of balanced proportions and precision he admired in Mozart.

Debussy's homage to Clementi (or was he poking fun?) is found in his Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum from the Children's Corner Suite (and it is much more accessible than the challenging Chopin Etude in C). And continuing the Clementi theme, Chopin admired his Gradus ad Parnassum and used it as teaching material with his students. Unless I deduce incorrectly, I believe it inspired him to pursue his own etudes.

Excuse the broad generalizations, but you get the idea: looking for musical relations over the generations as a way of pulling in more material that is complementary. One could follow that thread forward and backward in many directions. If taken in good humor like an Easter egg hunt it could be an engaging study.

[chicoscalco]

Hello Cometear,

As an exercise in exploration, it might be interesting to pursue music connections between the music you love and its relation to music before and after.  Let me explain: for instance, is someone loved J.S. Bach's music, it is interesting to learn a few pieces by later composers to also loved his music and were inspired by it: Chopin worshipped Bach and studied his counterpoint assiduously - this shows clearly in Chopin's music. Chopin's etude in C major was directly influenced by Bach (see Well-Tempered Clavier). Chopin also adored Mozart, and although the Chopin waltzes have no obvious stylistic connection to Mozart, they exhibit the same sense of balanced proportions and precision he admired in Mozart.

Debussy's homage to Clementi (or was he poking fun?) is found in his Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum from the Children's Corner Suite (and it is much more accessible than the challenging Chopin Etude in C). And continuing the Clementi theme, Chopin admired his Gradus ad Parnassum and used it as teaching material with his students. Unless I deduce incorrectly, I believe it inspired him to pursue his own etudes.

Excuse the broad generalizations, but you get the idea: looking for musical relations over the generations as a way of pulling in more material that is complementary. One could follow that thread forward and backward in many directions. If taken in good humor like an Easter egg hunt it could be an engaging study.

Don't want to go off topic, but is Chopin's study of counterpoint clearly shown in his music? Really? A part from a few random pieces (4th ballade, op10no6, some nocturnes) he is noted for his monophony. He who followed Bach's tradition in Romanticism is Schumann. His works are highly orchestral and polyphonic.

[awesom_o]

Don't want to go off topic, but is Chopin's study of counterpoint clearly shown in his music? Really? A part from a few random pieces (4th ballade, op10no6, some nocturnes) he is noted for his monophony.

Play a bit more Chopin! Chopin's music is extremely contrapuntal!

To the OP: it's fantastic that you are becoming more interested in the classical era!

[mjames]

Don't want to go off topic, but is Chopin's study of counterpoint clearly shown in his music? Really? A part from a few random pieces (4th ballade, op10no6, some nocturnes) he is noted for his monophony. He who followed Bach's tradition in Romanticism is Schumann. His works are highly orchestral and polyphonic.

Clearly you're not playing him correctly. Chopin is a master of counter-point; albeit subtle than most, it's still there.

[awesom_o]

Clearly you're not playing him correctly. Chopin is a master of counter-point; albeit subtle than most, it's still there.

Exactly.

[chicoscalco]

Exactly.

I must be missing something. Can you guys please elucidate me? Show me where on his music that you find this counterpoint? I don't wanna sound pretentious, but I already heard from a lot of musicians that Chopin's music is more appealing to the masses because it is less complex. Again, I know there are some examples, his sonatas also, but I fail to find polyphony in his music as a whole.
I love Chopin! Don't get me wrong hahaha 

[awesom_o]

I must be missing something. Can you guys please elucidate me? Show me where on his music that you find this counterpoint?

Listen to my recordings of the Etudes!

[mjames]

but I already heard from a lot of musicians that Chopin's music is more appealing to the masses because it is less complex.

I suppose it's better if you don't take those musicians seriously.
I would give you a list, but that's pretty much almost all of his music. You mentioned that only a few nocturnes have counterpoint? Let me give you a list of the ones that do:

Nocturne Op. 62 no. 1 and no. 2
Op. 55 no. 1 and no. 2
Op. 48 no. 1 and no. 2
Op. 37 no 1 and no. 2
Op. 32 no. 1 and no. 2
Op. 27 no. 1 and no. 2
Op 15 no.1 2 and 3
Op. 9 no. 2 and no. 3
C sharp minor post.
E minor post.

Surprised? You need to play them yourself in order understand.

Let's go for the crowd favorites:
Fantasie-Impromptu
Grand Polonaise Brillante
Op. 64 no. 2
Polonaise op. 53
Polonaise op. 61
Barcarolle Op. 60
Polonaise op. 44
Polonaise op. 26...both
Polonaise Op. 40...both
....Do you still need more examples?
You mentioned the fourth ballade, but let me tell you this, all of them have counterpoint lol.

There's still Op. 34 no. 2 (only one from that opus that i've  played), Tarantella, Allegro de concerto, fantasie, Op. 65 Sonata, lmao ALL of his late mazurkas...but let me give you a taste

Op. 41 c sharp minor, and e minor (beauties)
Op. 56 all of them
especially the
Op. 50 no. 3
Op. 59 no. 1
Op. 63 no. 3

Oh don't forget the neglected impromptus op. 36 and op. 51!!
Both piano concertos are rich with counterpoint
La Ci Darem la mano variations Op. 2
Many of his etudes....just listen to awesome's recordings...
Rondo op. 5 and op. 16

....Do you still need more examples?

I mean, i get where you're coming from. Chopin managed to develop his own polyphonic language with unique subtleties that are less obvious than the norm. I mean they're no Bach fugues; but it's still counterpoint.
Sigh I still ended up making a list...

[cometear]

Thanks everyone! I think looking for connections of composers could help. I'll keep that in mind.

Don't want to go off topic, but is Chopin's study of counterpoint clearly shown in his music? Really? A part from a few random pieces (4th ballade, op10no6, some nocturnes) he is noted for his monophony. He who followed Bach's tradition in Romanticism is Schumann. His works are highly orchestral and polyphonic.

I think Chopin is full of counterpoint. I've studied a few of the Waltzes and Nocturnes and I think counterpoint is definitely there.

[chicoscalco]

I suppose it's better if you don't take those musicians seriously.
I would give you a list, but that's pretty much almost all of his music. You mentioned that only a few nocturnes have counterpoint? Let me give you a list of the ones that do:

Nocturne Op. 62 no. 1 and no. 2
Op. 55 no. 1 and no. 2
Op. 48 no. 1 and no. 2
Op. 37 no 1 and no. 2
Op. 32 no. 1 and no. 2
Op. 27 no. 1 and no. 2
Op 15 no.1 2 and 3
Op. 9 no. 2 and no. 3
C sharp minor post.
E minor post.

Surprised? You need to play them yourself in order understand.

Let's go for the crowd favorites:
Fantasie-Impromptu
Grand Polonaise Brillante
Op. 64 no. 2
Polonaise op. 53
Polonaise op. 61
Barcarolle Op. 60
Polonaise op. 44
Polonaise op. 26...both
Polonaise Op. 40...both
....Do you still need more examples?
You mentioned the fourth ballade, but let me tell you this, all of them have counterpoint lol.

There's still Op. 34 no. 2 (only one from that opus that i've  played), Tarantella, Allegro de concerto, fantasie, Op. 65 Sonata, lmao ALL of his late mazurkas...but let me give you a taste

Op. 41 c sharp minor, and e minor (beauties)
Op. 56 all of them
especially the
Op. 50 no. 3
Op. 59 no. 1
Op. 63 no. 3

Oh don't forget the neglected impromptus op. 36 and op. 51!!
Both piano concertos are rich with counterpoint
La Ci Darem la mano variations Op. 2
Many of his etudes....just listen to awesome's recordings...
Rondo op. 5 and op. 16

....Do you still need more examples?

I mean, i get where you're coming from. Chopin managed to develop his own polyphonic language with unique subtleties that are less obvious than the norm. I mean they're no Bach fugues; but it's still counterpoint.
Sigh I still ended up making a list...

First of all, thank you for the effort of putting up a list! This sure helped me.
I think I get what you all are saying, and I agree even more now with the aid of your list. Chopin does have counterpoint, it is different from the others, more subtle.
But can you say there is a preoccupation with polyphony in his music? Not in the manner of Bach fugues, but take Schumann for example. I believe his playing is notedly more orchestral... Just from looking at his scores you can see it very clearly. And yes, I agree that maybe there is something in Chopin, but the counterpoint you mention in his first ballade for example. Or fantasie-impromptu. I won't argue it is not there, but what I'm trying to say now is that Chopin's music isn't HEAVY on polyphony, with that being a major issue in the majority of his works.


That being said, I wanna thank you again for the list, I saved it on my computer, and I wanna say that I am genuinely exposing my opinion, and not trying to "win an argument". I say this because I just started in this forum, and looking at other topics I was surprised with the arguments people were having... Things like personal insults, and people insisting on their opinion just so they wouldn't have to lose the argument, the discussion. I find that very childish. 

[j_menz]

A little surprised that the extensive list of Chopin's "contrapuntal" works didn't include his Fugue. 

[awesom_o]

Chopin does have counterpoint, it is different from the others, more subtle.
But can you say there is a preoccupation with polyphony in his music?

Chopin was such a genius that he didn't suffer from preoccupation at all!

[mjames]

A little surprised that the extensive list of Chopin's "contrapuntal" works didn't include his Fugue. 

lol.......

going to go hit my head against a wall now