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Topic: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)  (Read 2367 times)

Offline chopinrabbitthing

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Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
on: December 06, 2013, 10:03:17 PM
Hi,
I'm studying this movement right now and find it really tough to keep a legato line and a sensible fingering (it sounded and looked so much easier!) I was wondering if someone could help me figure out the fingering for:

Bars: 216; 225; 229

It's going to be weeks, or months till I go over this with my teacher, and I'm planning to learn it as well as I can before then.

Also, how can I play all of the fioratura correctly, and in time? I've drawn out divisions of the passages, and practise it slow, but I can't play them fast without playing too many/wrong notes.

Thanks!
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No.2, Piano Sonata Op 57
Chopin - Ballade Op 23
Liszt- Hungarian Rhapsody No.14
Ravel - Pavane Pour une Infante Défunte
Cramer/Bulow,Chopin Etudes
Chamber music

Offline enochy

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 02:04:40 AM
It seems like you're talking about the 2nd movement. There are 3 movements.
What I do is play them really loud (all the notes in ff, not caring about dynamics or accents etc.) and slowly. And then I do that same thing except like 5 beats faster. And then I keep going until I'm comfortable at the tempo I want. THEN, I go back to that slow speed but play it with dynamics.
The above was for the legato line.

I'll have to take a look at the sheet music. I'll reply pretty soon.

Offline chopinrabbitthing

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #2 on: December 07, 2013, 07:16:02 PM
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I was playing the first movement
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No.2, Piano Sonata Op 57
Chopin - Ballade Op 23
Liszt- Hungarian Rhapsody No.14
Ravel - Pavane Pour une Infante Défunte
Cramer/Bulow,Chopin Etudes
Chamber music

Offline chopinrabbitthing

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 07:24:06 PM
It seems like you're talking about the 2nd movement. There are 3 movements.

Thanks.
Although I appreciate your contribution, I didn't really like your attitude...there's no need to try to point out to me that there's 3 movements, I'm studying the whole thing (and presumable). It was an honest mistake to leave out the movement.
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No.2, Piano Sonata Op 57
Chopin - Ballade Op 23
Liszt- Hungarian Rhapsody No.14
Ravel - Pavane Pour une Infante Défunte
Cramer/Bulow,Chopin Etudes
Chamber music

Offline chopinrabbitthing

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #4 on: December 07, 2013, 07:24:42 PM
Also, there isn't even 200 bars in the 2nd movement
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No.2, Piano Sonata Op 57
Chopin - Ballade Op 23
Liszt- Hungarian Rhapsody No.14
Ravel - Pavane Pour une Infante Défunte
Cramer/Bulow,Chopin Etudes
Chamber music

Offline enochy

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #5 on: December 11, 2013, 02:49:55 AM
I said that I'm going to need a copy of a sheet music. (How could I know if there was 200 bars?) I'm saving for a membership for this forum.
I'm sorry if you misunderstood my attitude. I tried to be helpful.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #6 on: December 11, 2013, 03:11:56 AM
fingering for:

Bars: 216; 225; 229

Neither version on IMSLP has bar numbers and my edition appears to lack them as well. I'm guessing no-one is going to count to 216 and more. Can you scan and attach a pdg or image of the relevant bars, or otherwise identify them (such as link a recording and indicate start time for each).


Also, how can I play all of the fioratura correctly, and in time?

By not sweating the "in time" in the mathematical way you are doing it. It is not strict. Keep the bass line even in time, and treat the treble as a flourish - just make it sound good in it's own right, and start and finish in line with the bass and all will be well - and much better than a slavish division.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline steve_uk

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 03:54:25 AM
Don't ask for fingering in the first place on this site or some members will come down on you like a ton of bricks(sniff..)

Offline j_menz

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #8 on: December 11, 2013, 03:58:17 AM
Don't ask for fingering in the first place on this site or some members will come down on you like a ton of bricks(sniff..)

Fingering suggestion for three bars in a whole piece, requested after an attempt has been made (unsuccessfully) to produce one oneself is a rather different request than a set of fingering for an entire piece in lieu of any such attempt. Those bricks were more tightly aimed.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline steve_uk

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #9 on: December 11, 2013, 04:03:39 AM
Fingering suggestion for three bars in a whole piece, requested after an attempt has been made (unsuccessfully) to produce one oneself is a rather different request than a set of fingering for an entire piece in lieu of any such attempt. Those bricks were more tightly aimed.
I didn't expect a whole piece fingered;only the difficult parts.It's partly why I'm paying a teacher for private tuition in the first place. Strange how the musician who made the request also sensed the hostility and patronization I have similarly felt on my brief time here.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #10 on: December 11, 2013, 04:12:45 AM
I didn't expect a whole piece fingered;only the difficult parts.

Actually, you didn't ask here (on PS) for any fingering help.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline chopinrabbitthing

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Re: Chopin Concerto No.2 help? (fingering mainly)
Reply #11 on: December 12, 2013, 04:50:10 PM
Neither version on IMSLP has bar numbers and my edition appears to lack them as well. I'm guessing no-one is going to count to 216 and more. Can you scan and attach a pdg or image of the relevant bars, or otherwise identify them (such as link a recording and indicate start time for each).


By not sweating the "in time" in the mathematical way you are doing it. It is not strict. Keep the bass line even in time, and treat the treble as a flourish - just make it sound good in it's own right, and start and finish in line with the bass and all will be well - and much better than a slavish division.


Thanks a lot!
I'm sorry I assumed that everyone's score (including IMSLP's) had bar numbers. I'll try to link them as soon as possible :)

In relation to the second part, I haven't really been doing it mathematically...but I keep missing notes, playing extra notes, playing them unclear, etc. But thanks anyways for your answer :)
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No.2, Piano Sonata Op 57
Chopin - Ballade Op 23
Liszt- Hungarian Rhapsody No.14
Ravel - Pavane Pour une Infante Défunte
Cramer/Bulow,Chopin Etudes
Chamber music
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