To hell with all repertoire!

[invictious]

Never been a big fan of Bach's keyboard music, although I greatly admire his other works. Never really been a big fan of playing his keyboard music because it requires such a different technique to play.

I always prided myself by semi-specialising in playing music of the late-Romantic and 20th-century era. Prokofiev, Scriabin, Rachmaninov, Shostakovich etc are my favourite composers for the keyboard. Then I realised my technique was absolutely inadequate for many of the pieces I pretend to play well.

Now is the time for change. There is a saying that goes if you can play all the Preludes and Fugues by Bach, then you can play almost anything.

These few days I have been playing nothing but Bach! In fact, I am somewhere close to completing Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1 No.2 in C Minor (BWV 847). I will work on the one in A-flat major next probably in Book 1. Playing it through and practicing has led me to develop this whole new appreciation for Bach's keyboard music.

In short, I am going to be on a Bach binge. I must must must resist playing anything else until I can master a few of the preludes and fugues. Maybe some TWO-PART inventions as warm up!

Any suggestions or comments?

How should I go about approaching the Well-Tempered Clavier?

[pianoman53]

Sayings are stupid. If you master all Bach, it doesn't mean you'll be able to play chopin sonatas. If you master all Liszt studies, doesn't mean you will master beethoven.  It's like "if I only eat salad, I'll be the healthiest person alive". Play some of everything: done Bach, some Mozart and haydn, some chopin....

[ahinton]

Sayings are stupid. If you master all Bach, it doesn't mean you'll be able to play chopin sonatas. If you master all Liszt studies, doesn't mean you will master beethoven.  It's like "if I only eat salad, I'll be the healthiest person alive". Play some of everything: done Bach, some Mozart and haydn, some chopin....

Wise advice, without doubt, although I do think it not unreasonable to suggest that anyone who can master the studies of Chopin, Liszt, Alkan and Godowsky - and I mean really master them in terms of performability, not merely manage more or less to get his/her hands around them in the practice studio (which is challenge enough anyway!) - will likely be pretty well prepared to approach most other repertoire. The trouble is, all too few aspiring pianists ever do master all of these...

Best,

Alistair

[invictious]

Sayings are stupid. If you master all Bach, it doesn't mean you'll be able to play chopin sonatas. If you master all Liszt studies, doesn't mean you will master beethoven.  It's like "if I only eat salad, I'll be the healthiest person alive". Play some of everything: done Bach, some Mozart and haydn, some chopin....

I think it does not need to be said that the saying I referred to, or any saying at all, should not be taken literally.

In case you missed the point, which is my fault for not making it more explicit enough for you - I am planning to spend some time delving and exploring the works of J. S. Bach, especially the Well-Tempered Clavier. I believe going back to the 'basics' will aid in the development of my technique.

[awesom_o]

What you need to remember, invictious, is that music-making is a living skill which we must continually invest our energy into, no matter how proficient we become.

It's not a passive skill.... it's not like counting numbers, where we can say 'if you have learned to count to 100, you'll have all of the knowledge you need to count all the way up to 10,000'

I like your idea of going back to earlier music in order to improve your technique!
I would urge you not to limit yourself to the works of Bach in this quest! Explore Rameau, Couperin, Byrd, and others.

Do you play a second instrument?

[j_menz]

How should I go about approaching the Well-Tempered Clavier?

Book 1, C Major, C minor, C# major, C# minor......

Same (enharmonics considered) with Book 2.

I'd also suggest you don't try and master each one, just get to the point where you can see what that would look like. You can always come back to them.  But do master a few of them.

[chicoscalco]

What you need to remember, invictious, is that music-making is a living skill which we must continually invest our energy into, no matter how proficient we become.

It's not a passive skill.... it's not like counting numbers, where we can say 'if you have learned to count to 100, you'll have all of the knowledge you need to count all the way up to 10,000'

I like your idea of going back to earlier music in order to improve your technique!
I would urge you not to limit yourself to the works of Bach in this quest! Explore Rameau, Couperin, Byrd, and others.

Do you play a second instrument?

What awesome said about music making not being a passive skill is one of the best things I've seen on this board. People think you evolve in "steps", with pieces ranked to each one of them.
 Learning Bach won't make anything easier, but it'll provide you with tools to tackle other major works. But it's always a challenge.

[cometear]

I'm very much liking this topic. I find Bach to be a wonderful way to build basic technique but I also think the Beethoven sonatas include many of the skills that will improve our technique. There are many ways to do this! Great topic, keep them coming!

[chopin2015]

What awesome said about music making not being a passive skill is one of the best things I've seen on this board. People think you evolve in "steps", with pieces ranked to each one of them.
 Learning Bach won't make anything easier, but it'll provide you with tools to tackle other major works. But it's always a challenge.

it's not just about learning Bach. Like you said, OP, at some point, you felt that your technique was inadequate. Hence, you learnt something about yourself. There is a reason you like Bach. Perhaps you are feeling it necessary to address your "issues" by becoming more spiritual. And I don't mean go to church...but that's good too. You want to play Bach because it is a requirement for every pianist, to be familiar with reading/listening/playing multiple voices. Playing Bach is FANTASTIC FOR DEVELOPING THE PROPER TOUCH IN VOICING. There is no way to improve your awareness of voices in a fugue, on the piano than by listening while you play the notes in the right spots, with the right dynamics and articulation of phrasing (or subject and the way the fugue develops there forth, smooth execution of all musical ideas and everything in-between, all the way to the end...) Playing a fugue on the piano is indeed one of the most difficult musical tasks. Bach's counterpoint is quite interesting. It is like the 8th wonder, actually...
 I am sure you could probably execute at least parts of any given works that you find frustrating. The most frustrating part being the musical expression.

BTW Byrd is the word

[pianoplunker]

Never been a big fan of Bach's keyboard music, although I greatly admire his other works. Never really been a big fan of playing his keyboard music because it requires such a different technique to play.

I always prided myself by semi-specialising in playing music of the late-Romantic and 20th-century era. Prokofiev, Scriabin, Rachmaninov, Shostakovich etc are my favourite composers for the keyboard. Then I realised my technique was absolutely inadequate for many of the pieces I pretend to play well.

Now is the time for change. There is a saying that goes if you can play all the Preludes and Fugues by Bach, then you can play almost anything.

These few days I have been playing nothing but Bach! In fact, I am somewhere close to completing Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1 No.2 in C Minor (BWV 847). I will work on the one in A-flat major next probably in Book 1. Playing it through and practicing has led me to develop this whole new appreciation for Bach's keyboard music.

In short, I am going to be on a Bach binge. I must must must resist playing anything else until I can master a few of the preludes and fugues. Maybe some TWO-PART inventions as warm up!

Any suggestions or comments?

How should I go about approaching the Well-Tempered Clavier?

You cant go wrong  with Bach. I have recently been working on the Prelude and Fugue in F minor from the WTC.  I am familiar from failed sight reading attempts the Prelude in CMinor as well. Everytime I touch a Bach piece I want to to keep at it.

[invictious]

Strange thing is, I have not found the motivation to really practice and perfect a piece until I tried playing the Preludes and Fugues!

While the one in C minor is by no means difficult, it should be something that comes rather easily to me after a few hours of practice. Yet, I have spent several sessions working on it and it gets harder and harder to perfect! Then, it gives me even more motivation to work it through!

I think practicing Bach's music is wonderful training for disciplined playing, which I sorely lack! It really is difficult to master each voice in a fugue properly. In a way, it requires thinking when playing Bach's music whereas with many others, you just sit down and play!

As cometear mentioned, it may be beneficial to also learn the Beethoven Sonatas like I study the WTC. I may do this after I get another P+F or two down first

Any recommendations for P+Fs to learn? Advice and information about any of them would be helpful!

[carl_h]

I think practicing Bach's music is wonderful training for disciplined playing, which I sorely lack! It really is difficult to master each voice in a fugue properly. In a way, it requires thinking when playing Bach's music whereas with many others, you just sit down and play!

I don't really agree that 'with many others' you can just sit down and play, but I get your point
I think it's a good plan to work on, at least 1, baroque everyday. There is a ton of great music as well, Scarlatti wrote some awesome studies and also don't forget about Händel.

A good approach would be one where you think a lot about what you are doing, which I believe you are.

Grts,

[kitty on the keys]

Good for you! We all need a change from what we play. It is great fun to discover other composers works. I've done Haydn & Mozart Sonatas, Debussy pieces, and Brahms. Enjoy the journey!

Kitty on the Keys