How to learn French?

[theholygideons]

I have had a great enthusiasm in learning French recently. What are some books and other resources for learning French from English? What's harder, English, French or Latin? How long would it take for someone to fluently speak French if they studied 30 mins a day consistently. I believe knowledge of Latin stems and English May help memorizing certain vocab, although I'm worried about French grammar. :s

[thalbergmad]

This should help.

Thal

[ahinton]

This should help.

!!! Nostalgia and all that! How different Monsieur Michel Palin looks today to the way that he did in this!

Best,

Alistair

[Bob]

Just get a French 101 book.  Make sure you have audio so you know how it's pronounced.

Learn I, you informal, you formal, he/she/it, we, you as a group, they. 

Learn the verbs  to be  and to have.


Then go through the French 101 book chapters.  You can be fluent in sentences like, "The dog is black," right away. Actually being to say what you want?  A year, a few years.

Work through the book writing and speaking.  Try to find something to listen to translate (like audio materials that come with the French 101 book).


30 min/day isn't that much.  Go for more... 1 hour.  4 hours.   

After you go through it, then you realize it's simpler than it appeared.  All the French 101, 102 type of material is like music theory 101, 102...  It can be formalized (great for learning) but even after 4+ classes like that, the material is still pretty basic.

I heard English is hardest because it doesn't follow rules so much and has a lot of borrowed words.  French is a pain to pronounce.

[pytheamateur]

Subscribe to jejouedupiano.com for online piano lessons by French concert pianists.  Kill two birds with one stone!www.jejouedupiano.com

[g_s_223]

Er, obviously spend some time in a Francophone environment? France, Quebec, Polynesia(?), Vietnam(?), South Kensington

[ted]

I have been using duolingo to learn French for the last couple of months. It is good fun, but I am an awfully long way from holding a fluent conversation with a Frenchman. Also, although the interactive way is more enjoyable, I still found it hard to infer general rules from many examples, and needed to find a French grammar site to fill that gap. I do not have a good brain for languages, and despite going through the whole package of lessons three times I still find certain things have not sunk in. In particular, I find past tense forms, prepositions and word order difficult. I think I would need to do much more than the hour or so a day I have done so far.

[dima_76557]

despite going through the whole package of lessons three times I still find certain things have not sunk in.

Three times is certainly not enough; "seventy times seven" (c) is more like it. The best way to learn a language IMHO is to read and listen simultaneously without asking too many questions, especially since the grammar for Roman languages in general is not much fun to learn.

- First read and understand what's written there with the help of the annotations, explanations, etc.
- Then read and listen.
- Then listen without the text.
- Then listen and repeat after the speakers (if you can, also write a dictation; this is a super way to check whether you really know what they're saying)

Make no attempts at deliberately learning anything by heart, and at the first stage, skip the exercises that test intellectual stuff. As soon as you have done one unit to your satisfaction (but not sooner), go to the next one.

As soon as you can do that, take the next lesson and do the same, etc., still including the "older" stuff. This works like an ever growing snowball. After you have gone through the whole course in such a way, you will have the necessary underlying melodic images of the language in your head (accents mostly fall on the last syllable of a string of words) and you can then try to organize some of the grammar, especially the conjugations of verbs in the basic tenses of present, past, and future (I believe they have something like 27 tenses, but part of it is literary forms which you may never need).

Another approach would be not to do the grammar at all, but simply start another course (there will be partly overlap, so you will finish it faster) and do the same as above. The key to success is the musical (melodic and rhythmical) feel of it, not the grammar rules.

P.S.: People often say that you can simply learn the language by living there, but I think this is a myth, judging from the many immigrants who never seem to learn it; you need the basics outside that environment first, and there has to be interest and an incentive to learn it.

[ted]

- First read and understand what's written there with the help of the annotations, explanations, etc.
- Then read and listen.
- Then listen without the text.
- Then listen and repeat after the speakers (if you can, also write a dictation; this is a super way to check whether you really know what they're saying)

All these different aspects are part of duolingo, with each being exercised in each section. It is a very well designed system. I am the problem, not the method. If I were as serious about it as I am about my music things would probably start to sink in.

[dima_76557]

All these different aspects are part of duolingo, with each being exercised in each section. It is a very well designed system. I am the problem, not the method. If I were as serious about it as I am about my music things would probably start to sink in.

You shouldn't worry so much, I think. Simply repeat the steps you took when learning your native language (no grammar involved), and don't start constructing your own phrases too soon with a kind of grammar you *think* you understand, because rhythmical and melodic errors are very hard to correct afterwards.

Good things take time to grow. YouTube probably also has some stuff you can listen to from an English perspective. During that hour you have, simply submerge yourself in the language in a positive way but do it systematically. The results will come at a time when you least expect them.

P.S.: Do you understand the words in this oldie?

[Bob]

Free.

https://www.laits.utexas.edu/tex/

Learn with Tex, the armadillo.

(And Edouard, the snail.  Who smokes but doesn't get dried out apparently.)

[faulty_damper]

This topic interests me because I have a strong interest in the field of language learning, specifically how we actually learn one, which is very different from the way it is taught.

1. Learning tonal vocabulary - this means being able to listen and hear the sounds that are in the French language. Rhythm, tempo, and articulation are very important.
2. Reproducing tonal vocabulary - you are able to say the sounds of the French language in the correct rhythm, tempo, and articulation.
3. You identify repeated tone patterns - some sounds are much more prevalent than others.  After listening to a lot of French, find the sound patterns that are most common and practice saying those.  This is the most important part of language learning.

----
As you work on the above three, you can also work on:
4. Object identification - you see an object and you say its name.
5. Emotional and linguistic expressions - being able to reproduce sounds in the correct emotional state.

That's all that I can suggest at this time.  Notice that nothing about grammar or vocabulary is mentioned directly.

[ted]

P.S.: Do you understand the words in this oldie?

Yes, that one isn't too hard, but I have problems with Edith Piaf, and rapid conversation in French films is beyond me at present. Reading, of course, is very much easier than either writing or speaking. It might be a good idea if I read some literature in French, something I like, perhaps de Maupassant.

[dima_76557]

Yes, that one isn't too hard, but I have problems with Edith Piaf, and rapid conversation in French films is beyond me at present.

Both assume a lot (most likely much too much) if I may say so. You would probably be helped with a list of that kind of existing sources ordered by difficulty. Piaff's texts have all kinds of metaphors and literary qualities that may not be very useful for your purposes. Films, although often recommended, are only effective for already very advanced students, especially since the French tend to speak very fast, at least to my insufficiently trained ears. You want to understand at least 80% of what they're saying and guess the other 20%, otherwise you can't make any progress.

Another option may be to have a look at the official proficiency tests of French as a second language, ordered by difficulty. The audio portion of such tests is often an excellent preparation for real life, and with the answer choices (multiple choice) you have the opportunity to guess from context, which is very important in learning a language. Key: stop and repeat when necessary before answering a question, because your goal is not to pass the test, but to create situations in which you are forced to infer info correctly in situations that are close to real-life situations. Those tests also have a transcription of what is said during the tests + an answer key (sometimes with explanations) so you can check your work and learn where you went wrong.

Reading, of course, is very much easier than either writing or speaking. It might be a good idea if I read some literature in French, something I like, perhaps de Maupassant.

Depends on what your ultimate goal is. I don't think the classical literature of a certain language prepares very well for the conversational variant of that language. Audio books would be an option, but the number of unknown words, turns and phrases may spoil the fun really.

[senanserat]

Repeat after me:

Omelet du Fomage

[dima_76557]

Repeat after me:

Omelet du Fomage

No, I won't! It's "Omelette du Fromage" (with a French "r").

[Bob]

For the immersions side...

News websites in French. 
Movies in French (a lot have French audio tracks). 
Youtube in French.
Kids' books in French.
Are there any music treatises in French?

[dima_76557]

For immersion with the help of music, it seems that this is a good place to start with chansons in a series called "Learn French with..." with French, English, and Spanish subtitles for popular French songs:

videos

Organized by popular singers:
Joe Dassin
Mireille Mathieu
Nana Mouscouri
etc.

A very cool song that is very easy to translate is Gerard Lenormand - la ballade des gens heureux

Adamo - Vous Permettez Monsieur

Adamo - Tombe la neige (with French and English subtitles)

More difficult but very beautiful is the French version of "Belle" from the musical Notre Dame de Paris:

[senanserat]

No, I won't! It's "Omelette du Fromage" (with a French "r").

[oxy60]

Go live in France and get a French friend (relationship?). French is a formal language so in the course of the days you will hear the same things said over and over. And your new friend will guide you as well. Good luck!