Bach's Italian Concerto

[chopinrabbitthing]

Hi,
I'm not really sure if this is the right place to be posting it but anyways...

I'm studying Bach's Italian Concerto, and I know - it's supposed "imitate" a concerto written in the "Italian taste". I've read a lot about it, and it says, pretty much everywhere, that the parts marked "piano" are supposedly the soloist, and the parts marked "forte" are supposedly the ensemble.

This is really in reference to the first movement. If what is written above is true, that means the main interesting part is marked forte, while the boring, accompaniment-like part which is supposed to be the soloist is marked piano. I was thinking, is it possible that it's the other way around?

Is it possible to imagine the "forte" as the soloist, and the "piano" as the accompaniment? It would make a lot more sense when playing it.

[worov]

This is really in reference to the first movement. If what is written above is true, that means the main interesting part is marked forte, while the boring, accompaniment-like part which is supposed to be the soloist is marked piano. I was thinking, is it possible that it's the other way around?

I wasn't aware that there were "boring parts". Thanks for telling me.

[chopinrabbitthing]

I wasn't aware that there were "boring parts". Thanks for telling me.

You're very welcome indeed

Haha what I meant was the "piano" parts weren't as interesting as the "forte" parts, they sounded more like an accompaniment - I mean, very generally, the soloist has a "more interesting" part than the orchestra.

[scriabinophile]

Is it possible to imagine the "forte" as the soloist, and the "piano" as the accompaniment? It would make a lot more sense when playing it.

Yes. No doubt that is what is intended. Bach writes a solo line for the RH in single notes, and it is marked forte. That's obviously the "solo" voice, which he wants brought out. The lower, chordal part is marked piano.  That's clearly the accompaniment.  You wouldn't want the chordal accompaniment to be loud and overpower the single-line solo voice.

You have to remember that Bach intended the piece for a dual manual harpsichord. If you ever have a chance to play the piece on such an instrument, I think you'd find it very educational.  

Also, Albrecht Mayer plays an arrangement for oboe with small chamber ensemble. In some ways it is a lousy arrangement/performance of Bach, but at least it might give you an idea of how to conceive of the solo voice versus the accompaniment for the sections that you mentioned.  You should be able to find Mayer's performance on YouTube.  I'd suggest just listening and not watching, however; the group's mannerisms are annoying, to say the least.

Probably a better way to get a feel for the correct style would be to listen to lots of Baroque orchestral concertos, such as the Bach Brandenburgs.

A pianist who handles the piece well and gets that "concerto grosso feel" is Andras Schiff. There's a relatively recent YouTube video of him playing the entire piece as an encore in Japan.

Good luck with the piece.  I've always found it a fun work to perform.

[chopinrabbitthing]

Yes. No doubt that is what is intended. Bach writes a solo line for the RH in single notes, and it is marked forte. That's obviously the "solo" voice, which he wants brought out. The lower, chordal part is marked piano.  That's clearly the accompaniment.  You wouldn't want the chordal accompaniment to be loud and overpower the single-line solo voice.

You have to remember that Bach intended the piece for a dual manual harpsichord. If you ever have a chance to play the piece on such an instrument, I think you'd find it very educational.  

Also, Albrecht Mayer plays an arrangement for oboe with small chamber ensemble. In some ways it is a lousy arrangement/performance of Bach, but at least it might give you an idea of how to conceive of the solo voice versus the accompaniment for the sections that you mentioned.  You should be able to find Mayer's performance on YouTube.  I'd suggest just listening and not watching, however; the group's mannerisms are annoying, to say the least.

Probably a better way to get a feel for the correct style would be to listen to lots of Baroque orchestral concertos, such as the Bach Brandenburgs.

A pianist who handles the piece well and gets that "concerto grosso feel" is Andras Schiff. There's a relatively recent YouTube video of him playing the entire piece as an encore in Japan.

Good luck with the piece.  I've always found it a fun work to perform.

Thank you so much for your answer! That was exactly what I was thinking, but it was just that I read on Wikipedia and the preface of the Henle edition of the concerto that the soloist was "piano" - maybe I misinterpretated it...

I listened to Mayer's arrangement a while ago, it definitely helped me imagine the piece more as a concerto when I was learning it (this was months ago though).

I'll have a listen to Schiff's rendition.

Thanks