Hey y'all,I know this forum is overwhelmed with technique exercise questions, but I wanted some opinions on the Philipp technique method, more specifically "Exercises for Independence of the Fingers." I started doing them last year every day, stopped for a bit, and started again a few months ago. I do the first 5 Hannon exercises (to get my fingers loose), then the Philipp, then scales. I feel like it has immensely helped to strengthen my fingers individually, especially my 4th and 5th fingers.Does anyone else use/approve of these exercises? Anyone have other exercises to recommend? Just like weight lifting, I feel like if you practice the same things daily, eventually you will plateau and need to switch it up.Thanks!
My understanding of "Technique" is the ability to play precisely how you wish to interpret a piece. With that comes the development of speed, independence of fingers, and fluidity, among other things.
Does anyone else use/approve of these exercises? Thanks!
Thanks awesom_o, I haven't come across anyone else that has used these exercises.As for ease, the whole reason I practice technique is for total command of the keyboard, which requires ease, yes, and I don't see why technical exercises wouldn't help that.
So Awesom_O,You say you've yet to hear a pianist sound good with bad technique. Have you heard Argerich play? Did you think she sounded good?
So Awesom_O,You say you've yet to hear a pianist sound good with bad technique. Have you heard Argerich play? Did you think she sounded good? And what of Cortot? Both of them have said some intriguing things about their technique, both implying that they had fundamental flaws. They both worked very, very hard to sound good even with their flawed technique.
I did hear her once. It was a duet/duo concert, in Usher Hall, Edinburgh. The music was incredible, and it really opened my eyes to the magic of piano duo and duet. Argerich has incredible technique! I'm not sure where you ever heard anything to the contrary....Never heard Cortot live. His recordings aren't my cup of tea but his touch could be marvelous at times!
In the case of Cortot I always attributed that to Parkinsons. You can clearly see how much he trembles in the masterclass video where he is really old. Recordings from when he is "young" (granted the earliest recordings from 1919 he is already 42) are often played at astronomical tempos without loss of musicality or clarity (from what you can hear from 80 year old, muddy recordings) so it's hard for me to imagine his technique was bad if he could pull that off, especially with that marvellous tone he had.I've always been fascinated by Cortot, what intriguing things about his technique did he say that implied there were flaws?
Listen to this!!!! (I am in the process of getting virtuoso-like technique in the manner of only a few weeks).
But would you call a person who has a desire to help others out from what he clearly sees in his own practice a snake?
I am developing virtuoso-like technique that looks similar to Kissin's, and anyone else who wants to can also.
You need to be cautious of listening to those old recordings, partly due to the audio fidelity but mostly due to the playback of those recordings. It's highly improbable that he could have played those pieces so fast. What's more likely is that the playback equipment played them back at a faster tempo. This is actually quite common.
My point is that a person's technique is what he makes for himself, not what a bunch of books and scales and programs of study make it to be... If there is no thought by the person, then there will be no virtuoso technique.
Wouldn't that change the pitch too much with the analog signal technology they had back then? MM 120, 8 notes to the beat was the norm for scales and passage work, so there's no doubt in my mind that the old masters were quite capable piano players without sounding mechanical.
You need to be cautious of listening to those old recordings, partly due to the audio fidelity but mostly due to the playback of those recordings. It's highly improbable that he could have played those pieces so fast. What's more likely is that the playback equipment played them back at a faster tempo. This is actually quite common.Here's an old thread that expounds upon famous pianists' technique. Bernhard mentions far more pianists who had flawed technique. It's actually a really good thread about technique from 8 years ago.https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=19043.0
So you're actually admitting you're wrong and/or making an error in reasoning since you assume that a person who sounds good must also have good technique. This is a faulty assumption.
Don't confuse necessity with sufficiency. All the thought in the world will not a virtuoso make without an ability to apply it in practice, and that takes practice, however thoughtful.
Faulty Damper, you're saying that you sounded good without strengthening through exercises. I guess my point is that if you'd spent a little portion of the day doing exercises and developing strength and stamina, maybe it wouldn't take countless hours to develop a piece and maybe it wouldn't fall apart right away.
If you're doing Hanon for six hours a day, I think you might be doing something wrong....Anyways, this forum post was about whether or not others found the Philipp exercises effective (which people have, evidently) and if others had suggestions on other exercises that have proven beneficial.
However, 30-40 minutes a day of focused, conscious work on exercises like the Philipp series can work wonders in the short space of a year!
Usually, that's singing.
You're body is the instrument. One pianist said it this way: don't let the piano play you, YOU play the piano. And he was/is right.Now think about this thread. Who's playing whom?
Another pianist said "I am a general. My soldiers are the keys and I have to command them."Sometimes pianists say some dumb things.
Bwahahaha! A YEAR! I'd rather just teach my students how to use their bodies. They are the instrument. Not the piano.
Faulty Damper, You're clearly not in favor of technical exercises. That's fine. But you can't even be open to the idea that they could be beneficial? A lot of people very clearly state that they can be immensely helpful but you seem vehemently against them. Most schools, even the top conservatories have scales and arpeggios as part of the audition process. All the teachers I've ever come across have students do technical work AT LEAST up until a certain point. Now, I'm hardly a mathematical or technical person when it comes to developing a certain skill, but I know that using exercises has developed a core set of skills that transfer over to my playing
Teaching to play "with your body" just seems vague and wouldn't provide consistent relief from a technical stand point. I'm not trying to downplay your methods, but I would stick with technical exercises AMONG OTHER THINGS. Not Hanon 6 hours a day, but warm ups and technique for maybe 45 min to an hour and then 3- 5 hours of repertoire and general playing (which is basically my general schedule.) I've found that to be incredibally beneficial
Listen to this!!!! (I am in the process of getting virtuoso-like technique in the manner of only a few weeks). Your fingers don't need you to thrust them thoughtlessly a thousand times through the excercises that other men developed. Your fingers need to be thoughfully used to play piano keys slowly for the sake of music. If you really care, and if you really play as you think the instrument really ought to be played slowly from note to note, then you'll develope virtuoso-like technique. This is the key: You must give each note played VOLUNTARY, thoughtful attention and respect. You must always think ahead on the note that is to be played. This takes patience. Try just 5 notes, one per finger. Play each note one after another VERY SLOWLY, with much thought and love. Give each finger due respect. If you can play one note endearingly by itself, then you can also play that same note from another note. And always remember, there is no right or wrong, just your desire to embrace, sink into, the keys. -For its own sake - Not for skill's sake.
Do you know why so many "advanced" pianists still struggle with relatively basic technical issues that require them to practice an endless amount of hours? It's because they are using a less than perfect technique that requires them to practice an endless amount of hours to maintain.A perfect technique requires no extra practice once learned. This is how you know whether or not the technique is perfect. If you must still practice it, then it is less than perfect.These finger exercises cannot teach you this perfect technique because it is based on faulty assumptions about how the body works. Finger independence and finger strength is a myth and any student who thinks they can achieve this to improve their technique is ignorantly blissful. These same people believe that doing them has worked yet they continue to do them or other exercises. This is not the perfect technique.Of course it's vague. But I guarantee that once you've experienced it, you'll understand exactly what I mean. It will feel so easy. You will never again need to do any kind of exercises nor practice any kinds of scales or arpeggios. The only kinds of practice you will do will be for the acquisition and performance of repertoire.But, most people would rather quantify their practice in terms of hours instead of accomplishments. This is just lazy and/or misguided.
I agree with you even though I am not exactly where I want to be as my approach is relatively new. But this whole body technique I don't get. Care to elaborate or links?Nick
You completely avoided the question....
I didn't use the term "whole body technique" and don't know what that actually means.
Topic: I. Philipp - Another technique post! 