Do you think that there is a lot of ignorance in the music world???

[pianosfun]

Hello guys,

I don't mean to offend, but I think that many piano students are wasting a lot of time. The reason for this is that they're practicing the piano in a pragmatic sort of way, rather than in a patient, caring type of way. I did this for about 5 years of my life. The end goal of their practice is to become skilled, or to correctly perform a difficult piece, or to pass level 8, or to beat the other person in the competition. The end goal of their practice is not to enjoy music (Which must be correctly defined), nor to be delighted in their own musical journey.

Again, I don't mean to offend, but a couple of things that I've observed throughout my life and time on the internet are making me pretty mad... Who cares if the person hasn't learned the piece by the deadline? Who cares if they don't win some competition? Why should they go to level 9? Maybe they should go down to level 1? Maybe they shouldn't even play the instrument at all if all they're out to do is "win" or become a "virtuoso"! That's really backward. And what's worse is that many never see the (imaginary) world of music.

As a result, practice methods remain sloppy for long periods of time.

Also see this - https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=53908.0

-MUSIC HEARD IS ONLY A PRODUCT OF MUSIC REALIZED BY THE MUSICIAN-

[perfect_pitch]

Technically you've already identified the problem - some student's don't know how to practice. I teach my students a number of ways to help eliminate difficult or frequent mistakes, but after their half hour lesson - it is up to them to use these idea's I've taught them and to eliminate the mistakes using the techniques I taught them. If they do as I suggest, then those students will get better and possibly be in a position to win competitions, play difficult pieces etc... If they don't then they really can't blame me for that. I can nag them every time in their lesson until they do, but that's all you really can do to help them if they refuse to take my advice.

And, of course my other opinion is that I usually only intend to teach students who want to learn the piano.

[j_menz]

Do I think there's a lot of ignorance in the music world?  My own alone would make for a positive answer.

The actual body of your post, being completely unrelated to the question you posed, perhaps deserves separate comment.  Frankly, if piano students aren't wasting a lot of time - by going off and doing other things, or by exploring music off syllabus - then they're wasting all their time.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

My violinist friend did the concerto competition in my old school and didn't make it past the first round.

Because of that he dropped out of orchestra, music theory, and even Italian.  He took it because of the musical terms or something.  And now he doesn't know if he wants to go to college or not.

But he didn't quit violin, he just quit everything.

So I talked to him about it, and I remember he said something along these lines

'Man *** musicality!  Everything is about technique and speed.  It's the next step in human evolution'

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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

And I remember we were talking about another completion which he lost in, and he said that he knew that he was just way better than the person who beat him.  I asked him what did the judges say and he was like, 'they said that his playing was more musical.  They were on some bullshit'.


This way of thinking completely ruined him.  It's a shame to see this happen to someone.




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And I'm not sure that I agree with number 2.  Starting difficult pieces early?  I think that's great!  It shows that the student has the love for the music irrespective of how difficult it is!  Even if it's far above that persons difficulty, that person can now set a musical goal for him/herself instead of setting goals based off of credentials like getting to grade 8 or winning x competition or whatever. 

[pianosfun]

Thanks for all the helpful replys. I think that I'm getting onto something, but it's very difficult to get a correct answer with this type of unspecific question. Humans are very different one from another...  I'm sorry; I thought that it was more black and white. It's definitely not.

But I'm becoming a virtuoso with this method...

Haha, Perfect Pitch, I had planned that as my own method of teaching also.

[pianosfun]

Rachmaninoff:

Yeah, I agree with what you said about the difficult pieces. Again, it's difficult to verbalize things perfectly. What I mean is that the person has his own standard and through common sense and love for music learns compositions based on that standard.

[awesom_o]

no. 2, definitely!

Most people too are focused on how to make a career out of music, without being focused enough on making the actual music!

There are far too many threads asking 'which piece is harder?' as if that really matters!

You are correct that practicing should be a love affair of patience and caring.

Instead, students all over the world are trying to cram as many pieces into their muscle memory as fast as possible so that they have a better chance of getting to the second round of the next piano competition!!     


 

[m1469]

If there's a lot of ignorance in the world-world, then there's going to be ignorance in the music world.

[pianosfun]

Yes, there are a lot of (different) people in the world. And there is sadly much ignorance (as J_Menz said, as much in me as anybody). I'm learning (Hopefully sooner than later) by thrusting myself back into music to take something from another's point of view, even if I view the matter differently. Now obviously, since no two people are exactly alike, I will always have some objection that I want to assert or advice that I want to give to the other person in such a setting (Specifically of these creative arts, science, ect..). But soon, maybe soon, I will see that this stance of mine will thereafter be as much shaped by their own objection as my opinion did initially...

At the present time, I wish that people would invest in technique earlier, and develope their reading and listening abilities in such a way that they could perform pieces in a somewhat mature manner and at ease when they begin learning them. But who knows, maybe they as an individual would do better the other way around, learning repertoire piece by piece as well as technique alongside?  And sorry for the careless use of the word "virtuoso" to describe what is happening to my technique. I'm going to stop doing that to avoid confusion and/or annoyance.