Does this happen to you?

[outin]

Sometimes my hands and fingers feel strange when I play. It's not a negative thing, quite the opposite. My fingers feel like rubber (not soft like rubber bands, but flexible and still firm), they move very easily and my hands feel lighter. At the same time the keys feel different, they feel like they move almost on their own and the keybeds feel like they are also flexible...Don't really have words for it, but it's a weird feeling for me and it not only makes playing feel wonderfully easy, but it sounds nice too.

I am extremely stiff by nature so I wonder if this is how "normal" people feel like most of the time? It's usually gone the next time I start playing and before I haven't really been able to deliberately achieve this by any amount of "warming up". But recently I made some finger exercises of my own and now several times I've managed to enter this state after doing them very carefully for a while. I have also worked out my shoulders and back a lot lately, so maybe that's also why the stiffness isn't always so bad.

Or is it simply that for most people the effortless touch in playing simply can be difficult to maintain consistently without many years of practice?

[mhhudson15]

There are some days when my fingers feel worse and heavy and stiffer, like lead, and I bungle notes and chords I normally would have easily hit. But I've never had them feel better...

What kinds of warm-up are you doing now? Seems like it's helping a lot.

[outin]

There are some days when my fingers feel worse and heavy and stiffer, like lead, and I bungle notes and chords I normally would have easily hit. But I've never had them feel better...

What kinds of warm-up are you doing now? Seems like it's helping a lot.

Just simple slow finger exercises like 5-3-4-2 up and down the keyboard on different parts of the keys (with less or more curved fingers). Not long, even a few minutes seems to make a difference. Since most exercises and all the pieces I play involve the thumb and mine don't work as it should and causes me uncomfort, I left out the thumb and immediately noticed that I am able to do the exercise in a more relaxed and way... For my back, neck and shoulders I got a device that helps me strech them, probably nothing I do with my fingers would help if my shoulders were as stiff as they have been.

[hfmadopter]

Just simple slow finger exercises like 5-3-4-2 up and down the keyboard on different parts of the keys (with less or more curved fingers). Not long, even a few minutes seems to make a difference. Since most exercises and all the pieces I play involve the thumb and mine don't work as it should and causes me uncomfort, I left out the thumb and immediately noticed that I am able to do the exercise in a more relaxed and way... For my back, neck and shoulders I got a device that helps me strech them, probably nothing I do with my fingers would help if my shoulders were as stiff as they have been.

You're probably gaining some flexibility in part from the exercises and just a different approach to the keyboard. The more you play and as time goes on, you will find your fingers capable of strong but also flexible movements. At least compared to back at the beginning.

I can't say mine every felt rubbery but in the past they managed to get into positions that would simply be impossible in the early stages of my piano experience. These days I'm after a different experience from back then, I kind of take what I can get from it but am gaining.

[outin]

You're probably gaining some flexibility in part from the exercises and just a different approach to the keyboard. The more you play and as time goes on, you will find your fingers capable of strong but also flexible movements. At least compared to back at the beginning.

I also I noticed that I can suddenly play forte without the tone getting harsh...

I guess for me things just don't get better gradually, but suddenly just improve a lot without no obvious reason...

I can't say mine every felt rubbery but in the past they managed to get into positions that would simply be impossible in the early stages of my piano experience. These days I'm after a different experience from back then, I kind of take what I can get from it but am gaining.

I just had my morning practice and I had this strange (good) feeling again, but this time without doing any exercises. About a week ago I started taking some new supplements recommended by my doctor because my muscle and joint problems were getting quite bad...Now I wonder if they are actually helping...I am a bit sceptic about pills...but this morning my knee and my neck also doesn't bother me as it usually does

[hfmadopter]

I also I noticed that I can suddenly play forte without the tone getting harsh...

I guess for me things just don't get better gradually, but suddenly just improve a lot without no obvious reason...

I just had my morning practice and I had this strange (good) feeling again, but this time without doing any exercises. About a week ago I started taking some new supplements recommended by my doctor because my muscle and joint problems were getting quite bad...Now I wonder if they are actually helping...I am a bit sceptic about pills...but this morning my knee and my neck also doesn't bother me as it usually does

It could be the supplement outin. I take glucosamine in liquid form, my wife is buying it online. I have a stiff neck from a car accident years ago and it helps noticeably. We have a cat with advanced arthritis, the doc suggested the same thing for her in paste form. We see a big difference in her when she take it, more flexible. Just a dab on her leg that she has to lick off.

And outing, if you have a general problem with joint inflammation or arthritis really really look at your diet. My have has very chronic arthritis, at one point in her life she was all but crippled with it, wore a neck brace had to sleep sitting up in a chair. Young woman at the time in later 30's. She bought a book put out by an oriental doctor. He was wheel chair bound at one point in his life and changed all that with diet changes. Starting with tossing out all he had gotten accustomed to eating and going back to just rice and fish.In time that got him out of the wheel chair, then he introduced things back into his diet, each thing that bothered him he took back out of the diet. So she followed a similar routine. what we found out :

She now doesn't eat anything citric, no black pepper, no whole dairy but a piece of cheese here and there, we use supplemental milks, soy or almond for instance. Most fruits are off her list, but melon is ok and blueberries are ok. She has to limit pork intake. For years now she has followed this and no longer wears a neck brace for her arthritis. But she first started with cutting everything out and reintroducing things one at a time. She can eat all the fish and rice she wants of course. May not apply to you, just saying.

[outin]

It could be the supplement outin. I take glucosamine in liquid form, my wife is buying it online. I have a stiff neck from a car accident years ago and it helps noticeably. We have a cat with advanced arthritis, the doc suggested the same thing for her in paste form. We see a big difference in her when she take it, more flexible. Just a dab on her leg that she has to lick off.

And outing, if you have a general problem with joint inflammation or arthritis really really look at your diet. My have has very chronic arthritis, at one point in her life she was all but crippled with it, wore a neck brace had to sleep sitting up in a chair. Young woman at the time in later 30's. She bought a book put out by an oriental doctor. He was wheel chair bound at one point in his life and changed all that with diet changes. Starting with tossing out all he had gotten accustomed to eating and going back to just rice and fish.In time that got him out of the wheel chair, then he introduced things back into his diet, each thing that bothered him he took back out of the diet. So she followed a similar routine. what we found out :

She now doesn't eat anything citric, no black pepper, no whole dairy but a piece of cheese here and there, we use supplemental milks, soy or almond for instance. Most fruits are off her list, but melon is ok and blueberries are ok. She has to limit pork intake. For years now she has followed this and no longer wears a neck brace for her arthritis. But she first started with cutting everything out and reintroducing things one at a time. She can eat all the fish and rice she wants of course. May not apply to you, just saying.

Thankfully I do not have arthritis (yet) but hypermobile joints and soft joint tissue that makes them crack and do all kinds of funny noises...I have been using a glucosamine supplement for some time now.

The muscle stiffness I suffer all the time. I have been on relaxants but they make me tired and won't have a very long lasting effect, so I avoid them. So the doctor asked me to try if I get any help from a strong magnesium supplement and more vitamin D (which we never get enough around here). So that's what I've been using for a week now.

About food...I already have so many food allergies and stomach issues, that I have a rather simple diet as well...fish and rice is always delicious

[hfmadopter]

The muscle stiffness I suffer all the time. I have been on relaxants but they make me tired and won't have a very long lasting effect, so I avoid them. So the doctor asked me to try if I get any help from a strong magnesium supplement and more vitamin D (which we never get enough around here). So that's what I've been using for a week now.

We take calcium with D, my wife takes magnesium but I can't because of one of my prescription meds ( conflict of some sort, same with potassium, have to go low on that one). We take Zink daily, vitamin e and B+complex.

Is the muscle tightness a tension issue or physically chronic do you know ? Just curious is all, you don't have to answer. I am tense or tight myself ( chew on the inside of my mouth a lot, have mild anxiety, shoulder muscles pretty tight unless I think of it and relax them, though learning to relax some as I get older. Funny, sitting at the piano is one place I can back off on that a bit and relax. Fly fishing is another, especially in waders in a river. Canoeing another, all back to nature kind of things. In prayer is another, though depending on the reason it may work the other way sometimes !  The neurologist says it's habit, I think he's crazy.

[outin]

Is the muscle tightness a tension issue or physically chronic do you know ? Just curious is all, you don't have to answer. I am tense or tight myself ( chew on the inside of my mouth a lot, have mild anxiety, shoulder muscles pretty tight unless I think of it and relax them, though learning to relax some as I get older. Funny, sitting at the piano is one place I can back off on that a bit and relax. Fly fishing is another, especially in waders in a river. Canoeing another, all back to nature kind of things. In prayer is another, though depending on the reason it may work the other way sometimes !  The neurologist says it's habit, I think he's crazy.

The tightness is chronic, but of course it gets even worse because of my job and the back issue... I have never been able to relax my muscles by will, only with long lasting exercise or some treatments, but those often cause even more tension the day after. The muscles are tight no matter how relaxed I am mentally. I have periods when I'm better, but I still don't remember feeling this good for a very long time... Of course I never really cared before I started playing the piano again, it just wasn't so much of a problem with my lifestyle...

[carl_h]

Hello, I can very much relate to this actually.
I am, by nature, also pretty tense. Also, It is very difficult to be concious about it all day long.
For me it is usually my (left) shoulder, which have been bothering me for a long time (by, unconciously lifting it up very slightly). My fysiotherapist couldn't fix this, I guess one has to solve this himself one day at a time.
I have 2 hernia's in my neck as well, which irritates the nerves of my left arm, this could be related but I'm not sure about it.

I have a desk job and it seems that was the culprit. My sitting position wasn't very ergonomical (I thought it was) and since a few month I adjusted my position and it is starting to get better. It still feels a bit unnatural though but that will change, I hope.

As for the original question: Yes, it does happen to me that my hand/arms feel 'free'. That awesome feeling of effortless playing, I wish I could hold on to it. Whenever it happens (which is sporadically, I try to pay close attention to what I'm doing, and how it feels. Sadly, I cannot trigger this by will on the next day. It usually happens when my mind is clear or very tired, could it be that I tense up when I'm 'overthinking' things?

Yesterday I was trying to play a scale slowly, with full relaxation, hands seperate. Should be easy, right? Well it wasn't and that's kind of frustrating. Any tips on relaxation in general? Or how to permanently hold that state of feather-light arms and fingers?

Best regards,
Carl

[hfmadopter]

Any tips on relaxation in general? Or how to permanently hold that state of feather-light arms and fingers?

Best regards,
Carl

You can practice relaxing your fingers and arms while at the piano. In time you may pick up more and more ability to fall into that habit naturally. As to working on the rest of your body you need to find your own way, I listed mine above. Add to that not just the prayer and the things in nature but also meditation. My daughter uses yoga and another brought her daughter to an acupuncturist. I can tell you this, people want physical cures to this when really often it's in your mind where things have to change. Not that we are all nuts, but that's where the cure is sometimes, in the mind and in the heart ( internal in other words). The physical result of ignoring this is our tense muscles.

There is a nurturing power in the world, in the universe and all around us though( this is where half the forum members go "oh that again", so be it). To really really  and honestly ( you have to be honest) tap into that is peaceful. Not from a ritualistic religious or inside the church angle of view or twist but rather, doing it one on one. For me that's where the prayer comes in but not fancy prayer lead by some guy in garments spewing words. But my own spoken words, as we are speaking now. There is so much more to say about that but I also know that this is not the place for it, so for now I will just leave it at that. Let me just say that it has consistently worked for me.

[ajspiano]

chronic physiological problems aside, previously in my development I used to experience this or something similar.

My experience was along the lines of increased ease and physical capability that seemed to happen some days and not others or in response to warm ups etc.

The further down the track I get though the more observant I have become of such sensations  and I have become better at conciously replicating the result. I think that in the beginning before extensise work on self observation it requires muscle conditioning over a long period to instill free movements by default, rather than by finding them through concious warm ups and ongoing repeated slow work.

[Bob]

I've noticed these two things in the past....

The effect of using your hands for other things during the day, esp. lifting heavy items.  Makes sense.  It's using and straining them a little differently.

The muscles that lift the fingers up and extend the fingers.  Sometimes those can take a little more of the balance the muscle sits at.  Solved by relaxing and doing a scratching motion on the keys (or without the piano).  I noticed playing octaves or pushing too much/making too much tension can straighten my fingers out a bit like that. 

[brogers70]

Sometimes my hands and fingers feel strange when I play. It's not a negative thing, quite the opposite. My fingers feel like rubber (not soft like rubber bands, but flexible and still firm), they move very easily and my hands feel lighter. At the same time the keys feel different, they feel like they move almost on their own and the keybeds feel like they are also flexible...Don't really have words for it, but it's a weird feeling for me and it not only makes playing feel wonderfully easy, but it sounds nice too.

Yes, exactly that thing has started happening to me. I was very tense, and I went with my teacher and tried to remake my technique from the ground up, with a lot of simple relaxation exercises. Now I get that feeling often. I think the most important thing about it is that once you know that that's the way things should feel you can (consciously or unconsciously) aim at that feeling all the time you are practicing. You start to get a positive feedback loop or "virtuous circle" or whatever you'd like to call it. Even though I still get tense, now I can recognize it immediately and aim to get back that relaxed and supple feeling. You should be very pleased.

[outin]

Yes, exactly that thing has started happening to me. I was very tense, and I went with my teacher and tried to remake my technique from the ground up, with a lot of simple relaxation exercises. Now I get that feeling often. I think the most important thing about it is that once you know that that's the way things should feel you can (consciously or unconsciously) aim at that feeling all the time you are practicing. You start to get a positive feedback loop or "virtuous circle" or whatever you'd like to call it. Even though I still get tense, now I can recognize it immediately and aim to get back that relaxed and supple feeling. You should be very pleased.

I'm very pleased right now, especially since today playing felt like this again. My mother was visiting and when she heard me practice she asked me what I have done to the piano because it sings so beautifully (compared to before) 

But I wouldn't be a proper Finn if I didn't think that it will probably be just a temporary thing and soon I'll be back to normal 

But it really isn't just piano, I notice the difference even when typing...

[hfmadopter]

I'm very pleased right now, especially since today playing felt like this again. My mother was visiting and when she heard me practice she asked me what I have done to the piano because it sings so beautifully (compared to before) 

But I wouldn't be a proper Finn if I didn't think that it will probably be just a temporary thing and soon I'll be back to normal 

But it really isn't just piano, I notice the difference even when typing...

welcome to the new experience how ever long that is for !

[outin]

welcome to the new experience how ever long that is for !

Thanks!

I have to be a little sceptic about what my mother says though, because the next thing she said was that my playing sounded better than the pianist at a concert last night 

But that could be explained by the fact that they played Schnittke...

[hfmadopter]

Thanks!

I have to be a little sceptic about what my mother says though, because the next thing she said was that my playing sounded better than the pianist at a concert last night 

But that could be explained by the fact that they played Schnittke...

My daughter will comment how beautiful my playing is with a piece when I know it still sucks ! It's incomplete as yet.

Suggestion, enjoy your new found feeling in your hands etc. but do watch for side effects of the med over the next several weeks. Don't stress over it, just keep your mind open to other types of changes than you are having now. I wish you all the luck in the world with this,  it is wonderful !

[outin]

Suggestion, enjoy your new found feeling in your hands etc. but do watch for side effects of the med over the next several weeks. Don't stress over it, just keep your mind open to other types of changes than you are having now. I wish you all the luck in the world with this,  it is wonderful !

I will

I had quite extensive blood tests this week and I am glad to say that the results were very good in general (sugars were excellent and cholesterol was fine) and they did not find any signs of muscle inflammation or thyroid problems. They did take a few more tests (for rheumatic disorders), so we'll see if they find anything. But I feel so much better now than what I have been for the last few months.

[hfmadopter]

I will

I had quite extensive blood tests this week and I am glad to say that the results were very good in general (sugars were excellent and cholesterol was fine) and they did not find any signs of muscle inflammation or thyroid problems. They did take a few more tests (for rheumatic disorders), so we'll see if they find anything. But I feel so much better now than what I have been for the last few months.

That's wonderful outin !

So do I feel better, after last summer's episode I went on a gluten free diet and off of Allegra. I'm just about ready to get back on my bike and see what happens ( had to stop riding, couldn't breath and too weak, barely could do my work actually or walk 1/4 mile). I had a hospital stay and they found nothing, healthy as could be ( but they did not test for gluten, more for heart related things). I'm just curious to see what the summer allergies bring this year. If no repeat, I may be home free on this nutrition and not taking Allegra. I also stopped all alcohol, it was giving me a reaction of freezing cold after a couple of glasses of wine. I drink Chai Tea in the early evening now, without all the creamy crap.. Yep, in 5 weeks time I went from 11 mile bike rides to that, took me down fast what ever came on.

[ride800rmk]

I totally agree with you on that. its weird how it works. I feel like some days its very frustrating because you will play so good and then all the sudden your just not filling it anymore. plus if your hands are cold or your muscles are cold. I started taking lessons from pianopilot.com and in there they have ways to help avoid this stuff of what to do before you sit down to play. you have to pay if you want a membership but for me its worth it cause I can learn on my own. ( I don't work for them I kinda sound like it though lol) anyways piano for me is one thing I have to be in the mood for. I usually start every session with a series of warm up songs and exercises to help put my body and mind into the right mood. Also I have good results washing my hands with warm water before I play.    

[hfmadopter]

I totally agree with you on that. its weird how it works. I feel like some days its very frustrating because you will play so good and then all the sudden your just not filling it anymore. plus if your hands are cold or your muscles are cold. I started taking lessons from pianopilot.com and in there they have ways to help avoid this stuff of what to do before you sit down to play. you have to pay if you want a membership but for me its worth it cause I can learn on my own. ( I don't work for them I kinda sound like it though lol) anyways piano for me is one thing I have to be in the mood for. I usually start every session with a series of warm up songs and exercises to help put my body and mind into the right mood. Also I have good results washing my hands with warm water before I play.    

i have to run my hands under warm water in the winter months periodically anyway. This is about the time the temp falls below 40F, not just in extreme cold. My fingertips turn white and numb.

Other than the above, I can pretty much sit at the piano and work on something, as long as my mind is clear of daily clutter. It's really not so much about my body parts but more so about my mind and switching it off of daily matters. In that regard, mornings work best for me.

[chopinfrederic]

It is the "very light" feeling isn't it? It's maybe because you've done piano exercises for more than one hour, so your fingers are getting more flexible and warm, and it feels easier to play it.

[outin]

It is the "very light" feeling isn't it? It's maybe because you've done piano exercises for more than one hour, so your fingers are getting more flexible and warm, and it feels easier to play it.

Lightness is not the only thing, it is also the way the key bed feel to the fingers. Haven't really had that feeling again lately, although in general playing is much easier still.

I don't think it's so much about doing a certain amount of exercise, but doing it slowly and concentrated so that all extra effort is removed from moving the keys and there's no need to press to them after the hammers are set to motion. To get to that level of concentration isn't something I can do normally.

[rmbarbosa]

You may wish to have a look to the principles of russian school of piano playing... no fingers tension, no wrist tension, key attack like if the keys are like cheese ou rubber... no a "digital" technique but a good sound extracted with arm weight... That`s what you are feeling and it`s very good to feel that, I think.
Best wishes
rui