Working on Rachmaninov Prelude Op3 n2 - difficulties playing chords

[stefo78]

Hi everyone,

Here's my tryings to learn this beautiful piece. I didn't want to record all of this at first, since it's far from being finished, but it came like this, so... I would appreciate any advices on it, and my main first questions concern the playing of chords :

- on first part, I have great difficulties, for some chords, to play all the fingers at the same time : any clues on how I need to work on this ?
- how is it best to pedal this first part ? raise the foot on each chord ?
- the part 2:22 -> 2:33 : the first time I come upon things like this, I find it sounds not really this should be (if we put apart the wrong notes aspect...), any advice to work on this ? seems very difficult for me...

Any other comment about musicality or voicing would be greatly appreciated...

(and sorry for the poor quality of sound - I really need to change my camera)

Thanks thanks thank,
Stefo

[danny_pianist]

- on first part, I have great difficulties, for some chords, to play all the fingers at the same time : any clues on how I need to work on this ?

you must practice each chord slowly, in forte or fortissimo, later try doing them in staccato, and only practice them a little bit faster when you can play the chord correctly, since there a lot of chords you can divide the piece in small sections to practice them this way.

- how is it best to pedal this first part ? raise the foot on each chord ?

In general you should raise the foot everytime the harmony changes (unless it is written otherwise)

- the part 2:22 -> 2:33 : the first time I come upon things like this, I find it sounds not really this should be (if we put apart the wrong notes aspect...), any advice to work on this ? seems very difficult for me...

Again, slowly and in forte, and for perfection you have to practice, practice and practice! 

[faulty_damper]

Since you're not used to the chords, you'll need to condition your muscles and tendons for the stretch.  This will take a couple of days.  Then you need to learn how to play chords easily, which btw, isn't easy - the learning, not the doing.  This will be your most difficult task since this is about learning piano vocabulary.  The other things you anticipate will be easy compared to this.  And no, you don't have to play loudly to learn them.  That's just stupid, like shouting out vocabulary words to practice.  The key is that it should feel easy.

There are other threads on this matter, like the "how to play effective fortissimo" thread.  Go there for other advice.

[stefo78]

OK,thanks for your tips.
However, it seems that it is far more difficult for me to play these chords pianissimo than playing them forte. Is that normal or do I do something wrong ?

Maybe because with forte you have more speed so we do not hear so much the fingers not landing at the same time.

So I prefer to work on them the most pianissimo possible - but that's terribly difficult.

Am I on a right path ?

BTW, please excuse my english - that's not my native language and I realize with my posts how much I lack words to express exactly what I would like to say.

[coda_colossale]

Set the key weight to maximum if you already haven't to achieve better dynamic control and to be able to play pianissimo possibile, with lower settings best you can do is a mezzo piano, but realize that it is going to make things much more difficult, and playing the agitato part will be particularly nasty.
Voicing is the first obstacle that stands in your way to master this piece. Put more power to the two high notes when you play the three note motif. You should be voicing the top notes of each chord, but I don't know if voicing the top note of the left hand chords is a good idea, find out the voicing yourself but never play all the notes evenly. Do this until the grand finale begins. Also, never play broken chords. It's a bell motive. Pedalling is not difficult, for obvious reasons, but if you have a sostenuto pedal, which I think you do, you can make things interesting.

I can imagine the unusual fingering of the chords confusing you at first sight. But you don't have to follow them if you think it's easier to play it the other way. Also, a tip, you can play the top notes with your 4th finger to have better control over the voicing. If you play with interlocked hands, you will most likely voice the top AND the bottom notes of each chord, because you will be stretching your hands for the octaves. Unless, you have hands nearly as big as Rachmaninoff's. If you don't play with interlocked hands, and try to use the 4th finger, you will be instinctually playing broken chords to not voice the middle note. So you will have to actually think while playing. But this way, pressing the keys at the same time will most definitely be much easier than playing with hands crossed. Also, it is correct that playing the chords forte makes it easier to play the notes at the same time. I also have to warn you, you can't trust your muscle memory if you're going to take an alternate route. Doesn't matter if pedalling or fingering. You may rely on the pedal, since sliding is difficult, even for the majority of the forum members.

I press the pedal half way down throughout the entire agitato section. Starting slow, then speeding up gradually (or doing anything to create tension), and using effective rubato (but not overusing it) on places where you see fit will definetely improve your musicality. I see you lack control over dynamics and tempo particulary in the agitato section. Work on that, but never play inégal, for the sake of our ears.

Altough I don't think Rachmaninoff composed any program music for piano, except some obvious ones, this piece has a story, I heard. You may read it, which I don't recommend until you polish the interpretation into your final, since Rachmaninoff himself has opposed this, even with his Etudes-Tableaux, but later had to tell Respighi, who orchestrated some of them. You can make up a story of your own, or just define which emotions the passages represent, on a larger scale. This will help too.

Good luck with the piece! (BTW, I liked your interpretation of the Chopin waltz, which needs some more work. But if you were to polish that, you would do wonders with it.

[faulty_damper]

OK,thanks for your tips.
However, it seems that it is far more difficult for me to play these chords pianissimo than playing them forte. Is that normal or do I do something wrong ?

So I prefer to work on them the most pianissimo possible - but that's terribly difficult.

If you're like most people, you'll unnecessarily tense your muscles to play softly.  This is a mistake.  The hand should still be relaxed except at the moment you depress the keys.  The reason you are tensing is because you are probably trying too hard to play all the keys evenly.  You should be relaxed while playing evenly.

[stefo78]

Thanks for your tips and encouragements, I find all of your advices very useful. I'm a bit afraid, again, that I may have chosen a piece to difficult to master and to be bored before getting it up. It's been three - four months I'm learning it. But all this gives me hope and motivation.

BTW, I liked your interpretation of the Chopin waltz, which needs some more work. But if you were to polish that, you would do wonders with it.

Did you mean the minute waltz or the other one ? (The minute one is a bit better now I think)

[coda_colossale]

Thanks for your tips and encouragements, I find all of your advices very useful. I'm a bit afraid, again, that I may have chosen a piece to difficult to master and to be bored before getting it up. It's been three - four months I'm learning it. But all this gives me hope and motivation.

Did you mean the minute waltz or the other one ? (The minute one is a bit better now I think)

The A minor one. I didn't see the minute waltz actually.
The piece is indeed hard to master. I can't say that I have seen more than two or three satisfying performances of the piece. Gilels' and Paul Barton's (Yep, Paul Barton) are good. Listen to these.
Keep working, I say. I too had gotten bored with it, though not while polishing it, but learning it.