bernhard...

[zemos]

well, a short one.. :)

i saw in your posts you're talking about "grades" or something, who cataloged these grades? what are the grades and what is being played for example in each one?

[bernhard]

Grades refer to the perceived difficulty of a piece of music.

Music educational organisations use them as a way to organise the huge repertory in progressive order of difficulty.

The are many flaws with the idea of grading music: difficulty is very subjective (what I may find easy you may find difficult and vice-versa), it depend on one’s level (a grade 1 piece may seem very difficult to a beginner while a grade 8 piece may seem elementary to a concert pianist), and there are many different kinds of difficulty (a Bach fugue is difficult for completely different reasons that a Liszt Etude Is difficult, for instance).

As a consequence always take any grade attached to a piece with a large, very large pinch of salt.

These structural problems are reflected in the fact that different Music organisations frequently grade the same piece differently.

Personally I am most familiar with the ABRSM (Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music) in the UK, and you can have a look here to see what they have in their syllabus for each grade.

https://www.abrsm.org/


 The ABRSM grades pieces from 1 – 8:

Grade 1 – early elementary  – Grade 2 – elementary – Grade 3 – late elementary
Grade 4  - early intermediate – Grade 5 – late intermediary
Grade 6 –early advanced – Grade 7 – advanced – grade8 – late advanced.

Grade 8 does not even touch the virtuoso repertory (e.g. Chopin and Liszt etudes), so most of the standard repertory of a concert pianist will be well beyond the grades.

Some American systems have grades 1 – 10.

Have a look here, for more discussions on this subject:
https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4297.msg39910.html#msg39910

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1947.msg15391.html#msg15391

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4205.msg38841.html#msg38841

Personally I do not attach any importance to grades.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[zemos]

thanks for explaining!
can you tell me what are these pieces grades? :

bach prelude & fugue in Cm and Dm (book I)
haydn Eb sonata (no. 49)
beethoven sonata no. 17 op. 31 no. 2
schubert impromptu op. 90 no. 2
chopin polonaise op. 26 no. 1

thanking you in advance,
Tom.

[julie391]

grades are a decent general guide, but it appears you havent got bernhard's point yet

[super_ardua]

thanks for explaining!
can you tell me what are these pieces grades? :

bach prelude & fugue in Cm and Dm (book I)
haydn Eb sonata (no. 49)
beethoven sonata no. 17 op. 31 no. 2
schubert impromptu op. 90 no. 2
chopin polonaise op. 26 no. 1

thanking you in advance,
Tom.

Having a high grade does not mean you are a good pianist

[bernhard]

grades are a decent general guide, but it appears you havent got bernhard's point yet

Yes, people love grades.

Anyway:

bach prelude & fugue in Cm (book I) - Grade 8
and Dm (book I) - Grade 8

You may want to have a look here where the WTC has been ordered in progressive difficulty (from easiest to most difficult):

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2857.msg25255.html#msg25255

Haydn Eb sonata (no. 49)

I assume you mean Hob XVI/49. If so:

Allegro ( grade 8 )
Adagio e cantabile (Grade 8 )
Finale: Tempo di menuet (Grade 6)

beethoven sonata no. 17 op. 31 no. 2 – Advanced (well beyond grade 8 )

You may want to have a look here where the 32 sonatas have been ordered in progressive difficulty (from easiest to most difficult):

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2748.msg23723.html#msg23723

schubert impromptu op. 90 no. 2 – Grade 8

chopin polonaise op. 26 no. 1 – Grade 8

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[zemos]

So will you say it's a good repertoire for me now? (i'm 15, 5th year)
and btw, I saw your list of beethoven's sonatas, i'll change a bit the order of the last ones, that's my list (1 is the hardest):
1. op. 101 (amazing, stunning.... the toughest imo)
2. op. 111
3. op. 106
4. op. 109
5. op. 110
but there's no doubt, beethoven's last piano sonatas are his technically and musically hardest, and the most beautiful also...

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

So will you say it's a good repertoire for me now? (i'm 15, 5th year)
and btw, I saw your list of beethoven's sonatas, i'll change a bit the order of the last ones, that's my list (1 is the hardest):
1. op. 101 (amazing, stunning.... the toughest imo)
2. op. 111
3. op. 106
4. op. 109
5. op. 110
but there's no doubt, beethoven's last piano sonatas are his technically and musically hardest, and the most beautiful also...

I think it should go:

1. 106
2. 101
3. 111
4. 110
5. 109

But Sigmund Lebert thinks:

1. 106
2. 109
3. 110
4. 111
5. 101

In case you wonder, if you have the Schirmer edition, Lebert lists them all in order of difficult. Here's the list:


First (lowest) Grade:

1. Op. 49 No. 2 (Easy)
2. Op. 49 No. 1
3. Op. 79 (Alla tedesca)
4. Op. 14 No. 1
5. Op. 14 No. 2
6. Op. 2 No. 1

Second Grade:

7. Op. 10 No. 1
8. Op. 13 (Pathetique)
9. Op. 10 No. 3
10. Op. 10 No. 2
11. Op. 28 (Pastoral)
12. Op. 2 No. 3
13. Op. 26 (Funeral March)
14. Op. 31 No. 3 (The Hunt)
15. Op. 22
16. Op. 7 (Grand)

Third Grade:

17. Op. 27 No. 2 (Moonlight)
18. Op. 27 No. 1
19. Op. 31 No.2 (Tempest)
20. Op. 2 No. 2
21. Op. 54
22. Op. 78 (For Therese)
23. Op. 90
24. Op. 81a (Les Adieux)
25. Op. 31 No. 1
26. Op. 53 (Waldstein)
27. Op. 57 (Appasionata)
28. Op. 101
29. Op. 111*
30. Op. 110
31. Op. 109
32. Op. 106 (Hammerklavier)

*On several occasions I have heard this reffered to as "Fate", like the 5th Symphony.


- Ludwig Van Rachabji

[bernhard]

Thank you for that list!

I am always interested in alternative listings of progressive difficulty.

Now there are three opinions in the forum about the Beethoven sonatas.

Excellent!

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[BoliverAllmon]

hey check out my question to you in the teaching thread The curiosity is killing me.

boliver

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Thank you for that list!

I am always interested in alternative listings of progressive difficulty.

Now there are three opinions in the forum about the Beethoven sonatas.

Excellent!

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Your welcome! I'm glad I helped. 

- Ludwig Van Rachabji