If I were an alien who wanted to learn about music on Earth ...

[m1469]

how do you suppose I would learn the most about what music is - from strictly a "distant" observer's viewpoint?  If my choices were between looking at the profession as a whole or studying nature, which would give me a better idea of what music actually is?

[ahinton]

how do you suppose I would learn the most about what music is - from strictly a "distant" observer's viewpoint?  If my choices were between looking at the profession as a whole or studying nature, which would give me a better idea of what music actually is?

I'm not even sure that it would be possible to answer that question, except by saying that, heureusement, ma chère, you are not one!...

Best,

Alistair

[Bob]

If it's distant, through observation.  Across cultures.  Different styles.  Global.

Unless they're us or they've been here this whole time, they probably travelling here.  I'd assume some awesome technology.  They could remotely monitor the brains of audience members or just anyone who hears music.  A control group who doesn't really listen to any music would be good for comparison. If needed the aliens could abduct an entire audience and put implants in them.  Hopefully they can figure out which end is which.

A longitudinal study would be good.  They could travel at near light speed for a few minutes, come back, and something like a few years would have gone by here.  Although if they mastered space travel, I'd assume they have some good ideas on controlling time.  Their call.

I'd study the brain.  The profession could be through the media or probing a few people in the field.  That sounds easy enough.  There's sound in nature, but I'm not sure animals or creatures are creating music the same way humans are.  So study the effect of music on the human brain.

[ted]

Musical experience is a quale anyway, so I don't see any difference between an alien and a human being wanting to learn about it. Even within this forum, any given sort of music stands a good chance of being deeply meaningful to some and quite alien to others, as we read in threads all the time.

A strongly dramatic and fanciful answer to this very question occurs in Fred Hoyle's novel, "Fifth Planet". Aliens at once perceive mystical meaning in the Hammerklavier and suggest tempo changes. But then what would have been the romantic impact of the story had the aliens been fed a random collection of notes or a plinker and reacted in the same way ?

Any alien consciousness capable of hearing would just impose whatever meaning it chose on the music, exactly as we do.

[thorn]

Any alien consciousness capable of hearing would just impose whatever meaning it chose on the music, exactly as we do.

The best answer you could find to that question.

The same also applies to the study of communication/language and how an alien would go about communicating with us (and us it).

[indianajo]

I think some abstract appreciation of music could be explained by showing how the mathmatical relationships of 2:1, 3:2, 4:3 are found to be beautiful.  then an explanation could be made of how suspension of these relationships in time (melodic development) leaves satisfaction when the perfection is finally achieved. 
there is some hope of cross speicies appreciation, as birds like the mockingbird and kookooburra have a good appreciation of sound relationships, though they don't seem to do chords.  Chordal singing seems to be limited to the social creatures humans.  Although cephalopods (dolphins, whales) do a lot of related sounds to communicate that only recently we are coming to appreciate. And there is some relationship that happens subsonically among elephants.   

[m1469]

By the "profession as a whole" I mean the overall model it presents, its inner and outer workings as a kind of organism or engine that is supposedly living and breathing the principles of music.  What is the entire profession showing us about the substance of art and music?  And that, vs. natural ecology, for example.

If you mapped the structure and principles of a grand symphony against the structure and principles of the entire music profession, or the structure and principles of a grand symphony against the structure and principles of the earth's natural ecology, which would more closely resemble each other?  If you could look at the blue prints of how each "structure" functions at a fundamental level.

[Bob]

If the aliens were going to learn about music here on Earth.... That would be how humans are with music, not their reaction.  They'd have to study us.

I'd guess the aliens evolved somewhere else.  They probably aren't set up the same way we are.  They might not have ears, hearing, etc.  We may not even be able to communicate with them at all.


I suppose they could start posting on forums, asking questions too.

As a profession I would think it's the same as other professions.

[j_menz]

I suppose they could start posting on forums, asking questions too.

Hmm.... maybe that explains a lot..... 

[Bob]

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*Bob looks around for aliens, wonders if everyone else is an alien except him.... wonders if he's an alien but doesn't know it.*

It could explain why some statements don't make any sense.  Esp. with English.  That would take a while to pick up.  These aliens might have to adjust to language itself, and then English.... It's rough.

[pianoplunker]

how do you suppose I would learn the most about what music is - from strictly a "distant" observer's viewpoint?  If my choices were between looking at the profession as a whole or studying nature, which would give me a better idea of what music actually is?

Nature by far.  If they look at the "profession" as a whole, they might start posting on forums about what piece they should play next. They would get a whole bunch of answers and then determine humanity should be doomed.

[Bob]

But are they ready for the Fantasy Impromptu?  Haha.

A profession's a profession.  I'd look at the "nature" of music in terms of effect on humans, how they interact with it, etc.  The business side doesn't have a lot to do with music specifically.  It could be some other area, like sports or... anything really.

[pianoplunker]

But are they ready for the Fantasy Impromptu?  Haha.

SHHH! That is/was our secret weapon.  Not only will they try and play it, but they will use way too much pedal in the process and cause alot of damage.

[ted]

By the "profession as a whole" I mean the overall model it presents, its inner and outer workings as a kind of organism or engine that is supposedly living and breathing the principles of music.  What is the entire profession showing us about the substance of art and music?  And that, vs. natural ecology, for example.

If you mapped the structure and principles of a grand symphony against the structure and principles of the entire music profession, or the structure and principles of a grand symphony against the structure and principles of the earth's natural ecology, which would more closely resemble each other?  If you could look at the blue prints of how each "structure" functions at a fundamental level.

Grand symphonies, professionalism, and most of all structure (how I hate that word - as if music were a meccano set, with the manual written by teutonic magisteria), are unimportant in comparison with an individual soul (consciousness) attaining liberation and ecstasy through sound. That is the level at which the answer to your initial question is deepest and most meaningful. We could teach an alien the proportions of a rose in the same way we could teach it to solve a cubic equation. However, externally invariant logic is not what music or art is about is it ? The beauty of a rose is not definable by its proportions.

An alien could work out for itself what music is at the social and descriptive levels by observation, as we can, probably better than we can. Surely that is not what you meant ? It is trivial.

Your speculations and questions are always a challenge and a delight to me, m1469.