Purchasing New Steinway

[night_hawk]

Hello, everyone!

This is my first post here, so apologies for any faux pas, and if this has already been posted.

I have decided that I want to purchase a grand piano (most likely Steinway, due to convenience. However, if you can suggest otherwise, please do!). What are the basic things that I should know?
I tend to play quite a bit of Chopin and Liszt, with a bit of Prokofiev and modern stuff (mainly Vocaloids) here and there. Should that have any effect on which piano I choose? I understand that each piano has its own voice, but should I choose a piano that fits the pieces that I play, or one that is more well-rounded (if that makes sense...)?
In terms of longevity, does it matter whether I choose a lighter touch, or a harder one?
Basically, what were your experiences in purchasing a grand piano?

Thanks!

[pogmoger]

My advice is that it would be a mistake to buy a Steinway without first trying as many of the other top end handmade brands as you can get your hands on (Boesendorfer, C. Bechstein, Bluthner, Fazioli, Sauter, Steingraeber, Shigeru Kawai, Yamaha S/CF series, Estonia.)

By giving lots of different instruments a test run, you will find out the answers to your questions yourself. You should buy the piano with the tone that you find most appealing - don't worry about if it sounds 'well rounded' or not according to other people's definitions. The same with touch: some people like a light touch, some a heavier touch. For me, I want a touch light enough that I don't feel that I have to overexert myself to play loudly, but heavy enough that I can play softly in a controlled manner. But my idea of 'light' and 'heavy' isn't the same as everyone else's. It's subjective.

I too started looking at Steinways last summer, but I have had a lot of fun by expanding my search to other brands, and I've learnt a lot about the different tone possibilities. So my advice is to go out there, have fun and play lots of pianos!

[night_hawk]

Also, I will most likely be putting the piano in a 10x14 foot room. Is that too small for a piano around 6' long?

[quantum]

Hi and welcome to Pianostreet!

Why do you want a Steinway?  Is it because this brand speaks to you and your music, and stands out amongst all the pianos you have played?  Or is it because of what other people have told you, what has been marketed to you, or what you see everyone around you appears to be playing?  Can you elaborate on what you mean by "convenience"?  Would you be able to recognize a Steinway with the fallboard removed (without the nameplate) based on characteristics of tone and touch alone?

IMO one should buy the piano that most vividly realizes the music contained within one's minds ear.  You need to be searching for a piano that speaks to you, as opposed to some subjective ideal of what some would describe as "well rounded".  After all, it will be your piano.  You will be the one playing it.  True, there is no piano that does it all, but there will be a piano that does most of what you ask of it.  

Repertoire can be interpreted many different ways, so it is difficult to generalize x piano is suited to y repertoire.  Some people like their Chopin on a period Pleyel or Erard, others do not.  

Making choices on a particular touch would be better done on the basis of one's playing experience, rather then longevity.  Touch can be tweaked by a piano tech.  Certain types of voicing may also alter touch.  

Many of your questions could be answered, or at the very least clarified by the simple act of playing more pianos.  Play many different pianos, ones that are at your target, ones that would be insufficient for your needs, and ones that you could only dream of owning as they are far beyond your budget.  It is by playing many pianos that you will begin to discover what you desire in an instrument, and also what you do not want in your own instrument.

I did about 10 years worth of research before I found a piano that spoke to me, and that came within budget.  It was a very enlightening experience playing so many different instruments, and at the same time so much fun.  

[quantum]

Here's a list of technical tests I came up with for examining pianos.  The entire thread may be of interest to you as well:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=27871.msg322628#msg322628

[polishookm]

Night_hawk, the very best thing you can do is take your time as you look around. Don't rush the process no who tells you their deal is the best you'll ever find. I agree totally with Pogmoger - try as many top-tier brands as you can. You may (or may not) find that you like other brands more than Steinway. They are not the only game in town.

It comes down to taste and preference in the end but, again give that time. I spent about 16 months looking for a new piano before I bought the Steingraeber I have now. It was only by trying a lot of pianos that I came to know what I was looking for. After a while you start to get a sense of what's what.

When I finally settled on the Steingraeber I just knew that was the instrument that was going to work for me. In Europe, where I am know, they tend to be less expensive than Steinway. In the US it's the other way around.

My experience w/Steinway while I was looking for an instrument wasn't all that great. I'm sure it's different dealer to dealer but in both London and NYC it seemed Steinway Hall had, well, attitude problems! They say they're the best - but they don't want to explain a whole lot about why that is. In contrast, some of the other top-tier dealers whom I met along the way answered all questions.

Something else that's really important is the dealer who sells you the piano will be someone you're in touch with for a long time. For me it was really key that the dealer whom I bought a piano was responsive before and after the sale. Also I wanted to work w/a dealer who had a great technician on-staff. So my piano eventually was from Hurstwood Farm Pianos in the UK. They have a great reputation - deservedly so - in the UK.

Good luck with the process! It can be exhilarating, frustrating and all other things all at once. But when you find the "right" piano, if you've done the necessary prep work you will know that you've found it. And when the movers arrive with it, set it up and go, well that's a sublime moment!

[kalee21]

Hello night_hawk
I was in a very similar position to yourself last year.  My initial thoughts were to purchase a Steinway D, new or nearly so.
Fortunately I decided to conduct a review of top concert grands first.  Bosendorfer, Fazioli, Steinway and Steingraeber were all first rate pianos.  Different voices but all candidates. 
You can only take advice from the internet so far.  Great for forming a short list but thats it.
The fun part is the auditioning.  Take your time.  Within each brand, try to sample as many instruments as possible.  I went into that more or less expecting the choice would be which Steinway D I would select.  In the end I had to agree with Gordon Getty, the Steingraeber was for me the piano of choice.  That is for my ears and fingers.  For you things may well be different.    Be aware that now is a great time to negotiate on price, even Steinway have sales these days.  Never be pressured.  Be aware of those who insult every piano in the world but their own.
Like polishookm has advised take the dealer into account.  My previous piano was a Steinway B by the way.  At that size it was vastly outclassed by 7ft. Steingraeber's and Fazioli's.

[g_s_223]

My general view is that for each grand piano size, often a different maker will achieve the best sound: i.e for each of 6', 7',8' 9', almost certainly four different makers could be the best choice.

Therefore, I would suggest finding the optimal size piano for your current (and near-future) rooms, then try all the options in that size.

P.S. I am a fan of Grotrian[-Steinweg], not previously mentioned in this thread.

[future_maestro]

pogmoger is right, take a look at some other piano brands before diving into any. With pianos, you have to find the one you want, there is no magic brand that makes the perfect piano for you 100% of the time, but some are better than others.

You're going to buy a Steinway? You'd better be a frickin' millionaire, or have a good credit score.
I have a 6' 7" Shigeru Kawai, and it plays on plain with a Steinway, and it was half the price of the equivalent Steinway!

Try as many as you can. Good luck!

[beethovensonata]

Are you a spoiled 'stard? or don't know the cost of a steinway?  Who told you to buy a steinway?  A prepped steinway is probably the best piano you can buy, but is it worth the money? I too like future_meastro have a sk5 shigeru, for half the money of a steinway.  Is it you buying this or momma?  Cause you need to do a LOT of research!

Beethoven

[pianoparent2013]

I like to suggest that each person has his or her own reason for purchasing a specific type and a specific brand of instrument, be it Steinway or Pearl River.

We can help by sharing experience, information or ideas without using strong language colored by biased opinions and potentially faulty "value" assumptions or name-calling. Anonymous though it may be, a certain level of decorum makes for a more civilized and productive discourse.  

One person's Kawai may not be another person's beloved Yamaha and one person's Fazioli may not be another person perfect Sauter. Different brands appeal differently to different players.

Just my ten cents.  

All that said, I would suggest that night-hawk first list what are the most important considerations. Is it the brand? Is it the beauty? Is it touch? Sound? Size? Then try as many different brands as feasible before settling on one. Depending on one's reason for the purchase, there are many viable options. A particular Steinway may be the perfect fit for a player but it is not the "best" of all brands as often proclaimed by its marketing literature. Steinway is not the be all and end all, regardless of how well it is prepared. We all have our touch preferences and our hearing preferences.

It is why so many brands manage to survive and compete against Steinway in that same category.

[fischer3966]

Hi - I decided to purchase a new Steinway because this was the sound I was mostly hearing in the pieces I listened to.  I listen to a lot of jazz, such as Harry Connick, Diana Krall, and many classical pieces that are performed by Steinway artists, so it was the sound I "expected" to hear when I played.  This was just normal to me.  Though everyone has different ears and tastes, so I would also suggest playing them.  Every Steinway is going to be different and will sound different when it is in your home vs. the showroom.  Remember that.  I just purchased my Model O at the Pittsburgh Steinway gallery about 2 years ago and love the feel and sound.  I may actually have to sell it soon as I am potentially moving, so if you would like to try it feel free to let me know.  Best of luck and hope you find the right piano!

[awesom_o]

I just purchased my Model O at the Pittsburgh Steinway gallery about 2 years ago and love the feel and sound.  I may actually have to sell it soon as I am potentially moving,

Don't do it! You'll lose so much money in depreciation. Better to keep the piano and move it with you!

[pytheamateur]

I really like C Bechstein pianos, especially the one at the church around the corner of my house, although it is not a modern one.  I haven't had much chance playing a modern one unfortunately.

[iansinclair]

I have to admit that I'm always somewhat entertained with threads on this type of question.  As has been said -- perhaps with more vehemence than is necessary -- when one gets into the realm of pianos in the class of a Steinway, it is really necessary to try several different makes of pianos (unless, as someone noted, a particular makes sound is what they know they want to hear) and, within each make, several different instruments.  At that level, oddly, there is somewhat more variation between individual instruments than one might find in the mid range pianos -- such as the Shigeru Kawai someone mentioned (a very good piano indeed, by the way -- but not in the same class, sorry).

All of the pianos in the top rank are expensive.  Make no mistake about it.  Some (e.g. Estonia) less so than others (e.g. Steinway).  They are also worth the money.

I am sorry that polishookm had an "attitude" problem with Steinway Hall in both London and in New York.  I have not found that to be the case, although they are aristocrats and know they are, which bothers some people.

[pytheamateur]

At that level, oddly, there is somewhat more variation between individual instruments than one might find in the mid range pianos -- such as the Shigeru Kawai someone mentioned (a very good piano indeed, by the way -- but not in the same class, sorry).

All of the pianos in the top rank are expensive.  Make no mistake about it.  Some (e.g. Estonia) less so than others (e.g. Steinway).  They are also worth the money.

Are you saying Estonia is in the top rank, which is better than a Shigeru Kawai, which is only mid range?  A Russian professional pianist once told me that Estonia is not that well-regarded in Russia.  It is more or less a piano used for pop music there.  Perhaps that's classic Russian colonial mentality and that they are jealous of the fact that Estonia is miles better than any Russian piano manufacturers.

[polishookm]

I am sorry that polishookm had an "attitude" problem with Steinway Hall in both London and in New York.  I have not found that to be the case, although they are aristocrats and know they are, which bothers some people.

No need to feel sorry ... ... In comparison to other top-tier piano dealers I visited Steinway was glossier - and questions asked weren't answered except with marketing-speak. So aristocratic? Who knows ..Maybe? ... But that really wasn't the issue.. But when looking at and when trying a variety of pianos - and particularly top-tier pianos - information is key. It's essential.

To give an example when I asked Steinway about piano setup once the piano reached my home the response was tuning is the only thing that's necessary - because Steinways are perfect right from factory and no further voicing is necessary once they leave the factory.

However  acoustics are going to be very different in a home than in a showroom. The thing is, very piano is an individual and they need to be treated as such. So in-situ voicing - which is really just part of basic piano setup - can be an essential and often requisite procedure when a piano's delivered to wherever it's going.  That's an opinion I came across repeatedly during my piano search - from dealers, technicians, recording engineers, and pianists.

I've posted a 5-part series on my blog about what learned as I looked for a piano - and there was indeed a lot of learning.

https://www.polishookstudio.com/2013/12/on-picking-piano-part-5.html.

I'd encourage anyone and everyone looking for a piano to ask sellers and dealers questions. Try different instruments. See what you like in a piano. Over time, the answer for "which piano to buy?" becomes clear through experience.

[outin]

Are you saying Estonia is in the top rank, which is better than a Shigeru Kawai, which is only mid range?  A Russian professional pianist once told me that Estonia is not that well-regarded in Russia.  It is more or less a piano used for pop music there.  Perhaps that's classic Russian colonial mentality and that they are jealous of the fact that Estonia is miles better than any Russian piano manufacturers.

It may not be quite the top rank, but it's very good in it's price range.

The reason why it's not considered that good in Russia may be partly because before the complany changed owners about 10 years ago, their piano's weren't quite the same and many of the pianos in Russia may be from the soviet era. Or maybe they really are jealous

[awesom_o]

The reason why it's not considered that good in Russia may be partly because before the company changed owners about 10 years ago, their piano's weren't quite the same and many of the pianos in Russia may be from the soviet era. O

This is correct! Soviet-era Estonias were not great pianos even when first built. The new ones are very nice!

[amytsuda]

I was just watching on YouTube Andras Schiff talking about Schubert, and here's the section he is comparing Bosendorfer and Steinway.

=8m42s

[michaeljames]

I highly recommend OLD Steinways that have been restored by REPUTABLE restorers.  Like all crafts, piano production has its fluctuations.  The same year can produce both wonderful and lacking instruments, depending on who worked on each instrument.

There are current restorers who do FANTASTIC work on all vintage pianos...not only Steinways.  Dale Erwin out of Modesto, California has made fantastic improvements to soundboards, adding ribbing, cut off bars, etc...to make the sound board far superior to anything ever offered by Steinway itself.

In Minnesota, there is a GREAT restorer of Steinways, Ken Hannah, who can turn a worn out train wreck into an absolute perfect piano in every way.

There are charlatans out there...from personal experience, I could not, in good conscience, recommend David Andersen out of L.A.  I purchased two pianos from David and both have been completely fraught with problems and David Andersen's customer service is non-existent.  He lacks integrity and character and I, personally, have spent my last dollar on his product. 

That said, Ken Hannah in MN, Dale Erwin in Modesto, CA, are the best in the US.  They are able to acquire old pianos and restore them to beyond full glory. 

Much like driving a new car off the lot, it depreciates immediately.  The older Steinways (and others) are made from the oldest woods...simply not available any more.  There's no comparison to today's instruments and those of the hey day of piano construction.

I currently am playing an 1898 Steinway C with a soundboard by Dale Erwin.  My local technician has successfully regulated the instrument so that it is an absolutely astounding instrument.

Wholesalers offer many of these premium pianos for cheap....10-20 thousand.  Your piano can be customized to your specifications. 

Food for thought.

[g_s_223]

My working principle is that each piano size has its ideal makers, i.e. size:
6' - baby grand
7' - orchestra grand
8' - intermediate concert grand
9' - normal concert grand
10' - specialist concert grand

Over time, particular makers will achieve prominence in each area. By no means does one brand span all of them.

If you quote a particular size of interest, then I think real evidence will be readily fothcoming.

[pytheamateur]

My working principle is that each piano size has its ideal makers, i.e. size:
6' - baby grand
7' - orchestra grand
8' - intermediate concert grand
9' - normal concert grand
10' - specialist concert grand

Over time, particular makers will achieve prominence in each area. By no means does one brand span all of them.

If you quote a particular size of interest, then I think real evidence will be readily fothcoming.

Why is a 7-footer called an orchestra grand?  I thought a 9-footer is normally used for concertos?

[quantum]

My working principle is that each piano size has its ideal makers, i.e. size:
6' - baby grand
7' - orchestra grand
8' - intermediate concert grand
9' - normal concert grand
10' - specialist concert grand

Over time, particular makers will achieve prominence in each area. By no means does one brand span all of them.

If you quote a particular size of interest, then I think real evidence will be readily fothcoming.

I would be inclined to label the 6' piano a conservatory grand, while anything shorter than 6' a baby grand.