Pronouncing composer's names

[1piano4joe]

Hi all,

It seems I am unfortunately, incredibly talented at getting composer's names wrong. It's safe to say that I pretty much mispronounce 99% of them. I have made an effort to learn some of them but they just don't stick which is somewhat odd as I have memorized their compositions.

I was even wrong about seemingly easy names like Hummel or Weber that I thought I knew how to pronounce.

I found a website called "forvo" and found it very useful. I just searched "Kuhlau" and "Dussek" and others. This website gives native pronunciations and really opened my eyes to my ignorance.

Why are composer's names so difficult to get right? Is it because of language differences and composers are from so many different countries?

They don't exactly come up in conversation and piano is something I do basically by myself. The majority of people I know never even heard of most of them.

Well, on the positive side I have found something that is even worse than my sight-reading, Joe.

P.S. How common is this among student pianists or am I just seriously behind in this regard? And does it even matter?

P.P.S. I suppose if I ever had to perform I might have a prepared "talk" on the composer which would of course have the correct pronunciation (probably not HaHa) of the composer's name.

[Bob]

Different languages, cultures, etc.  I think it's common.  It just makes people look stupid when they mispronounce a name.

I think there are a few threads about how to pronounce names.  If you've got more, post them.  I wouldn't mind more input. 

To me you could know plenty about a composer without knowing how to pronounce their name.  You could have read it.  It would be sign that you hadn't taken a music history class or talking about the composer with someone in person, or those people didn't know how to pronounce the composer's name either.

It's more embarrassing when someone is performing a piece in front a group and then realizes they don't know how to pronounce the name.  Or when a teacher is speaking the same name correctly right after they said it, not as a correction but just because the teacher doesn't want to mispronounce it.

Yes, if you ever give a presentation or announce the piece you're playing, be sure you know how to pronounce the composer's name.

I guess it's a sign or a big red flag that this person might not have a clue about the composer.  Uneducated.  If you've studied the composer, you've probably heard their name spoken somewhere.

On the opposite side, I've seen people do something extra when they're pronouncing the composer's name correctly.  They're pronouncing it correctly.  They know it.  I think it's when they're speaking in that languages natural tone.  So it sounds a little different if it's not their usual accent.  But the odd part is when they pause and emphasize/look at you, to make sure you know they're pronouncing it correctly and that they probably practiced it so it's correct.  "I was playing a piece by... *looks at you* Jean-Henri d'Anglebert...  and blah, blah, blah...."  To me, it makes them look like a stuck up music ass/snob.    It's the attitude about doing that.  Personally, I lean toward pronouncing it correctly but in my own accent.


"So who is this Don La Bear guy I keep hearing about?"   


Yes, post the site.  I'm wondering about Dusseck now.  I'm not familiar with him.  "Duh-sehck?"  "Doo-say?"  Or no... It's a different culture, and it's actually pronounced "Smith."

[Bob]

https://www.forvo.com/


"Doo'-scheck"
https://www.forvo.com/word/jan_ladislav_d%C3%BCssek/

A real person saying it too.  Good site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Ladislav_Dussek


*Bob is happy he won't look stupid now.*  Now I can be an ass and say, "You mean... 'Doo-scheck?'  Is that who you're talking about?  Or trying to talk about?  I don't know who this 'Duh-seck' guy is."  

[j_menz]

I wonder if it's more common nowadays than it was in the past. Before YT etc, most of us heard music on the radio, where it was introduced by someone who generally knew how to pronounce names. That is generally where we first encountered "new" names, and only saw them written later. I suspect these days most people's introduction is to the written form with no guidance.

[outin]

I often mispronounce in purpose, because IMO many foreign (especially French) names pronounced correctly sound really stupid mixed in the speech of my own language. Especially since we don't use prepositions, intead we add things to the end of names as well as other nouns. German is not a so much a problem because the intonation and the use of syllables is a bit more similar. English has to be toned down a bit to not sound silly...

[Bob]

I usually see the names on music or in a history book.  I remember it dawning on me when I was seeing "D'Anglebert" and a teacher was saying "Don La Bear."     "Why are you talking about Don La Bear when we were supposed to read about Dee Angle Bert?"    (I did not ask that.)

[nystul]

Many names are simple enough phonetically in their own language, but the rules are different from other languages.  There are a hundred thousand German-Americans named Wagner who don't pronounce their own names like they would pronounce the composer's name.

[haydnseeker]

Does anybody know how Frederic Rzewski pronounces his name?


Chopin Ballade 1
Schumann ABEGG Variations
Debussy Images I (all 3)
Berg Sonata

[j_menz]

Does anybody know how Frederic Rzewski pronounces his name?

Cheffski

I'm assuming you're not asking about the Fred bit.

[Bob]

Who's O?  Me-O.


Darius Milhaud  <-- "Darius  Me-oh"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_Milhaud

[gvans]

I often mispronounce in purpose, because IMO many foreign (especially French) names pronounced correctly sound really stupid mixed in the speech of my own language.

Hmmm. How do you pronounce, then, "rendezvous?" Do you accent "Ravel" on the first syllable? Do you put a social insect into "Beethoven?" Do you pronounce "Chopin" like choppin' wood?

[outin]

Hmmm. How do you pronounce, then, "rendezvous?" Do you accent "Ravel" on the first syllable? Do you put a social insect into "Beethoven?" Do you pronounce "Chopin" like choppin' wood?

I try to avoid french if possible

Such simple French words actually fit ok with the correct pronounciation, except for the R's which I usually do our way. I guess it's more about toning down a little bit than actually mispronouncing...

Who pronouces Chopin like that anyway? No bees in my Beethoven either. These must be something an English speaker would do I guess...

[j_menz]

No bees in my Beethoven

Awww.. 

[outin]

Awww.. 

But his music is about as pleasant to me as a swarm of bees...

[j_menz]

But his music is about as pleasant to me as a swarm of bees...

But they're so warm and cuddly...

[outin]

But they're so warm and cuddly...

True, his bare parts do look red from cold

[gvans]

But they're so warm and cuddly...

For a guy wearing an hymenoptera overcoat, he is still standing, but he's not exactly smiling.

Where on earth do you get these photos, j?

[Bob]

I'm thinking someone said something like this to him.  "Oh, yeah?  Well, why don't you go cover yourself with bees and while see ...._______"  And then he does it just to prove them wrong.  He's got kind of an f-you/see-what-I'm-doing? look on his face.  Mr. Defiance, covered in bees.  He showed them.

[gregh]

How does he get them to leave when he's ready to go back inside?

[j_menz]

How does he get them to leave when he's ready to go back inside?

Easy, just tell them to



 

(My sources are secret, btw)