Lost

[tdk2302]

Hey guys, Im kinda lost at the moment. I have been playing for around 7 years (I'm 16) and just play seriously for about 2 years. I don't know why but I get really jealous when seeing other people that is my age and far advanced from me. I keep asking my self this: If I'm going to be a piano major, will I ever catch up with them? Will I ever be that great? Please give me advises.

[faulty_damper]

What you really want is support.  So here's my support. 

I used to have the same thoughts and feelings as you when I became a music major in college.  I think I was 22 or 23 at the time, so I was much older than you.  I had only been playing for 2 or 3 years and it seemed like every other pianist was leagues ahead of me.  I wondered if I'd ever catch up and be able to play as well as some of the other pianists.   I was so bad at it that my first teacher kicked me out of his studio.  The second teacher was at a loss as to what to do with me but was too kind to kick me out.  Eventually, I stopped taking lessons for my own good so I could learn how to play properly.  My technique was terrible.  But when I finally showed up for my make up jury, I impressed the hell out of them.  Sort of.  The easy pieces I played like crap.  But the difficult etude I played very well.  This was confusing since it's usually the other way around.  But I showed that playing like crap was due to other reasons (like not practicing) instead of technical reasons.  My former teacher, the one who kicked me out, asked about the Godowsky etude and said something like "that's remarkable" about my learning and playing it.

The etude was the Chopin Study No. 13 in E-flat Minor, Op.10 No.6.  It's the piece that taught me that playing is easy, learning how is hard.  And it should be hard.  Otherwise, it means you already know how to play it.

I've improved greatly since I graduated.  My advice to you is a practical one: don't major in music.  As the music director said to me on more than one occasion, "there are no jobs for a music degree."  And he was right.  He was the only person at the school who was honest and sincere.  I wish I were wise enough to know how true his words were then.  I definitely know how true it is now.

Good luck!  Wish you the best and avoid bad teachers.  There are too many of them.

[stevenarmstrong]

Comparing yourself to others is senseless. You need to do this for yourself, for your own satisfaction and to discover what it is that you have to offer. Don't waste your energy thinking about other players. There are millions upon millions in the world. There is always somebody better and they may live next door to you! Just focus on yourself and your development at a pace that works for you.

[stevenarmstrong]

Side note...

There are plenty of jobs for music majors. You just need to be open-minded, find your niche and put yourself out there. Also, if you want to teach a bit the more educational background you have the more you can charge.

[tdk2302]

I know it senseless but I just wish to be that person.. If that makes sense..

[briansaddleback]

Comparing yourself to others is senseless. You need to do this for yourself, for your own satisfaction and to discover what it is that you have to offer. Don't waste your energy thinking about other players. There are millions upon millions in the world. There is always somebody better and they may live next door to you! Just focus on yourself and your development at a pace that works for you.

Nailed it. End of thread.

[gregh]

You must be young.

I'm 44 and I find eight-year-olds that are better than me. I just remind myself that the eight year old kid probably has years of experience on me.

[faulty_damper]

Nailed it. End of thread.

No, not end of thread.  Just the beginning of a discussion on human nature.

Humans are social animals and this attribute requires that we do as the herd does if we want group cohesion and protection.  It allows all individuals within the group to be protected as long as everyone looks and acts the same. This is why we compare ourselves to others so that we know that we do not stick out.

However, this social comparison is only beneficial when the environment is uncertain or dangerous.  In the OPs case, the environment is uncertain because he's not certain he'll get into a music school.  This is why he compares himself to others because if they get in, and he's worse than them, he won't.

The problem is not entirely due to social comparison because it is self-imposed.  If, for example, he intended to major in biology instead of music, he wouldn't have this stress since there will no longer be this uncertainty.

Unfortunately for the OP, he's not playing the piano for intrinsic reasons, i.e. pleasure, joy, etc., but for extrinsic ones.  He's playing the piano so he'd get accepted into music school.  No one likes to be forced to do something they don't want to.

[tdk2302]

I agree and disagree with you. I love piano, and I do play it for my own pleasures. My parents actually dont support (or even, not allow) me to go to music school.
The fact that I compare with other is that I really want to be the best, I want the attention from other people (I.e: professor, audiences).  I know it is stupid but it is just me I guess.

[stevenarmstrong]

I do get what you're saying...I want to be that person too! But you have to make peace with yourself about it you know. And, you know what!? The better I get, the more I realise I have to learn - the more flaws I see and the bigger and harder the journey seems to be. But you know, the journey will never end no matter how great you may get. Why do you think great pianists of the world record the same works several times? It never ends! Be patient, be kind to yourself, and enjoy your journey. If you want recognition from professors, audiences etc, it's not stupid, just work your butt off, be musical, be ultra-expressive, bring something unique to the table. Work hard and focus on yourself. Man I wish I was your teacher!

[stevenarmstrong]

p.s. faulty_damper: boooo. tdk2302 is pouring his/her heart out and you're just using it as an opportunity for self-promotion. Stop talking about yourself and all this objective psych and human nature crap. tdk2302 is just reaching out for encouragement - not this bs.

[tdk2302]

Thanks you for your encouragement. I actually feel the same way from time to time when thinking about it. I just cant understand why it doesn't happen on any other fields beside music.

[faulty_damper]

p.s. faulty_damper: boooo. tdk2302 is pouring his/her heart out and you're just using it as an opportunity for self-promotion. Stop talking about yourself and all this objective psych and human nature crap. tdk2302 is just reaching out for encouragement - not this bs.

Perpetuating ignorance doesn't help the matter, especially since some of the advice given contradicts what we know about human behavior.  To say you can simply stop doing something that is natural, is utter ignorance.  And in the face of reality, turning away because it doesn't conform to your ideas is arrogance.

[faulty_damper]

I agree and disagree with you. I love piano, and I do play it for my own pleasures. My parents actually dont support (or even, not allow) me to go to music school.
The fact that I compare with other is that I really want to be the best, I want the attention from other people (I.e: professor, audiences).  I know it is stupid but it is just me I guess.

You say that you do it for your own pleasure but you also do it to receive approval from others.  This is a contradiction.  Research on motivation shows that between intrinsic and extrinsic, extrinsic wins out almost every time no matter how intrinsically motivated you once were.

Thanks you for your encouragement. I actually feel the same way from time to time when thinking about it. I just cant understand why it doesn't happen on any other fields beside music.

It happens in every single field.  You just don't know how competitive the world is.  If you get into music school (btw, a music degree is completely useless as a performer) you'll notice that the piano faculty has an inner power struggle where they compete against each other and use their students are tools in their ongoing battles.  If their students play better than the other teachers' they feel like they've won a small, but significant, victory.  The same happens in your highschool teachers but you don't notice because you don't pay attention.  The same happens with other students at your highschool, for grades/popularity/girlfriends/boyfriends/friends/status/etc.  Just look around and pay attention. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

You'll also see that some members on this forum do the exact same thing. Just check out the power struggle happening in the audition room. 

[ted]

You just don't know how competitive the world is.

Unfortunately I think you are dead right about all these things. I wish it were not so but I rather think it is. I was competitive when young, very dependent on extrinsic reward as a measure of satisfaction. Over the decades I seem to have lost all that, and find the intrinsic pursuit of musical beauty enough, especially through improvisation. Praise or criticism neither interest nor concern me any longer, although even twenty years ago they would have. Perhaps it is just reduced testosterone levels and not having to fight for a living any more. The only reason I post at all on forums is to promote personal improvisation as a liberation from these horrible competitive musical magisteria. So many young posters, often of immense talent, seem beset by competitive angst of every imaginable type, and it saddens me. At least I have tried to show them another way does exist.

You'll also see that some members on this forum do the exact same thing. Just check out the power struggle happening in the audition room. 

God not me I hope ! If I am seen that way my good intentions have gone down the drain !

[kopower]

^ I totally agree with you ted -

Just play music and enjoy it for yourself.
Do your own personal improvisation -

I feel free learning and playing piano for myself - in my youth it was a chore and felt like being hit by a ruler everytime ppl judged my playing as 'not perfect' by examiners and teachers alike

[tdk2302]

Thanks you for all the information/encouragment I really need right now. Why would you say there is no job for musician? (And why would you say the opposite)

[faulty_damper]

Thanks you for all the information/encouragment I really need right now. Why would you say there is no job for musician? (And why would you say the opposite)

There are no jobs for a music degree.  You don't need one to teach or to perform.  The director of the school of music also said that he knew a number of pianists with Masters degrees whom he wouldn't want playing at a wedding.  In other words, the degree you attain has little relationship to your actual skill in playing.  The two are almost independent of each other.

So the point is that going to music school, while very worthwhile and experientially fulfilling, is practically useless in the real world.  As well, a music degree is generally looked down upon by most people.  Did I forget to mention that none of the teachers I had helped me to improve my technique or musicianship?  That's something I had to learn entirely on my own.  Don't be fooled by the false promises college offers.

[briansaddleback]

What in the world are you talking about? I see all your responses are pretty much nonsensical at times. I understand human behaviour and such but you're bringing up topics and such that doesnt apply to the what the OP simply states.
basically as I said, for a response to a childish question such as in the original post, this reply below ends the thread.

Comparing yourself to others is senseless. You need to do this for yourself, for your own satisfaction and to discover what it is that you have to offer. Don't waste your energy thinking about other players. There are millions upon millions in the world. There is always somebody better and they may live next door to you! Just focus on yourself and your development at a pace that works for you.

[kopower]

There are no jobs for a music degree.  You don't need one to teach or to perform.  The director of the school of music also said that he knew a number of pianists with Masters degrees whom he wouldn't want playing at a wedding.

You made me chuckle - but scarily I believe it might be true !

[piano6888]

I've been in the same shoes that the OP has before.  Here is my input on this matter: While I go for both intrinsic and extrinsic goals, I find a happy medium between both goals.  For my situation, I seek to be better than my peers and be recognized for what I am truly capable of (of course I'm no where near that of even the most seasoned pianists, which is reality.) which is an extrinsic goal. This helps me know where I stand and encourages me to keep up.  Now for my intrinsic goals is to play for personal fulfillment (hobby) and to always keep improving and reach new heights. 

As far as drawing the line, I am looking to enjoy playing for the sake of playing but simultaneously have a high degree of proficiency (not necessarily world class pianist, but at least better than most music students at conservatories).  I say this because I enjoy the piano playing but enjoy a sense of achievement as well.

[hardy_practice]

The fact that I compare with other is that I really want to be the best, I want the attention from other people (I.e: professor, audiences).  I know it is stupid but it is just me I guess.

...and every other pianist.

[j_menz]

...and every other pianist.

No, not all.