Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse

[invictious]

Sex on the ears. Aural sex. Aurgasm. Whatever you choose to call it. To me, this is definitely one of my favourite piano pieces.

So around a month ago weeks ago I decided to tackle this piece after much deliberation. It was clear that this piece is REALLY DIFFICULT and perhaps quite beyond my technical abilities (for now). Then again, we only improve when we push the envelopes of our capabilities.

I did go through some difficult sections, such as bars 17-18. I still cannot execute those two bars with precision and accuracy and control every time, but I am working on it. I strongly suspect it that it is a fingering issue.

Bars 25 and 27 are also a pain in the butt.

As of right now (I am going to practice piano right after this post, I promise!), I am working on the section with the RH broken chords, i.e. bars 99 - 144. If I could choose between getting shot or learning this section, I would most probably elect the former (bars 105 - 108 @#$%^&).

The rest of the piece seems to, in relativistic terms, be more straightforward than those bars abovementioned.

I would be grateful if any of you could give me:

1. Any advice / tips on learning this piece;

2. How to address those difficult sections; and

3. Any recommended recordings of this piece.

I will keep you lads updated of my progress.

Thanks.

[birba]

Well, you've grasped the key to the interpretation at least.  It is definitely  a sensual debussy!
And it is difficult.  But those last measures you mentioned aren't really that hard.  I find the stretto with those damn dotted sixteenth notes the most difficult.  Makes schumann look easy.
As far as those initial measures you mentioned, don't hang onto those eighth notes.  Emphasize them but release them as if they were a 16th note.

[nanabush]

This piece is incredible.  I played it for my fourth year recital; by far my favorite Debussy that I've worked on.

I agree with Birba.  Those dotted sixteenths are brutal.  I probably had 5-6 ways of practicing it slowly, but in the turbulence of the piece it's so hard not to rush through that part.

This piece is a huge roller coaster of content.  My teacher kept telling me to 'relax' in the first A major section (with the groups of 5 in LH).  It's like this sudden paradise that appears.  I guess, throughout the piece, ENJOY each part.  There are so many interweaving parts it's like complete magic (or sex) on the ears.

In terms of technical stuff:
-I had a rough time playing the very first bar for a while.  My hand just never felt warmed up. 
-Also, the fast arpeggios (the fast RH ones) are not as bad; getting the left hand to cut through with the theme is probably more difficult.
-Don't be too slack on the dotted rhythm of the theme.  It's not supposed to sound strict, but it's very easy to play it sloppily (especially when the RH bounces around different octaves with that motif).


===

Random side note stuff.  What blew me away about this piece is just how forward it drives itself on the last two pages.  It's such an immense sound, and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.  When the A major theme comes back and is kind of rebounded in the left hand, AHHHHHH so good!  And it just gets better when it's grounded on F and the LH just powers out those bass notes.  Even better that it's very modal, it just has this completely exotic sound to it, it's unreal.  I felt like a preacher forcing all my friends to listen to this piece.  It's mind boggling.

*Nanabush runs to the piano to play it

[thorn]

Bars 17-18 I assume you mean the right hand (the left is nothing new). I did a lot of holding the quaver and repeating the triplet. So for example hold the D# and play F#-G-F# F#-G-F# (same for each group). Don't try too hard and keep fingers close to the keys.

25 and 27 become easy when you become absolutely clear on where your hands are going. Play the RH as straight quaver chords C#m - Bm (+ 8ve higher) with your eyes closed. LH I do 5-3-1-4-3-2-1, you can again turn this into two chords (because two hand movements). Again eyes closed.

99-144 is exactly the same as above- play them as chords with eyes closed so that you know exactly where your hands are going. When you do turn them into demisemiquavers, same as I said above keep fingers close to the keys- the effect should be a veil of sound rather than a flashy barrage of notes (save this for the end).

It's been years since I last played this and it's the sort of piece that you learn something new from every time you go back to it. I'm happy to help with any further specific difficulties but it would be impossible to provide generic tips on the whole thing.

In terms of recordings, you can never go wrong with Samson Francois when it comes to Debussy/Ravel. Also Marcelle Meyer. There's also an orchestrated version which Debussy apparently had an indirect influence on that gives a pretty good sense of the range of colours in this piece.

[chicoscalco]

I'm not even such a big fan of Horowitz, but good lord. This is beyond words. I honestly cannot think of any flaws in this performance. Pay attention to the bazillion different kinds of touches he employs. Also, it's live  

[chrisbutch]

Awkward as several other passages are, I've always found that the biggest technical challenge is controlling the pianissimo trills right at the start. This is one of those occasions where knowing the piano you're playing on is essential. That very first whispered trill has to seize the listener's ear while only just over the threshold of audibility - if you adopt a low-risk approach and don't start with anything lower than an ordinary piano, there's no magic. Take it down too far and you lose notes, a disaster from which the rest of the performance is unlikely to recover.   

[chicoscalco]

Awkward as several other passages are, I've always found that the biggest technical challenge is controlling the pianissimo trills right at the start. This is one of those occasions where knowing the piano you're playing on is essential. That very first whispered trill has to seize the listener's ear while only just over the threshold of audibility - if you adopt a low-risk approach and don't start with anything lower than an ordinary piano, there's no magic. Take it down too far and you lose notes, a disaster from which the rest of the performance is unlikely to recover.   

You play those trills pianissimo? In my henle score they are markes piano with a crescendo right from the start, going up to forte in that chromatic thingy.

[chrisbutch]

It's the lower reiteration which is marked piu p - but the point is that in these six opening bars, from a cold start, you need to control the trill (and the following demisemiquaver figures) through the whole range of soft dynamics down to near-inaudible. The same six bars appearing in the middle of a piece would be far less challenging.

[chicoscalco]

It's the lower reiteration which is marked piu p - but the point is that in these six opening bars, from a cold start, you need to control the trill (and the following demisemiquaver figures) through the whole range of soft dynamics down to near-inaudible. The same six bars appearing in the middle of a piece would be far less challenging.

As I said, in my henle score the trills in the beggining are not so soft as you say. Also, in all recordings I heard they are played quite forte. Are you really talking about the first measures? If so, what made you think it's supposed to sound so soft?

[invictious]

Well I suppose the difficulty in the opening trills is that you have to colour those trills whilst executing a crescendo instead of merely playing them as straight trills.

[chrisbutch]

As I said, in my henle score the trills in the beggining are not so soft as you say. Also, in all recordings I heard they are played quite forte. Are you really talking about the first measures? If so, what made you think it's supposed to sound so soft?

It's the range required throughout the first six bars - look carefully at the markings throughout, including what happens after the piu p. These six bars are like the introductory bars of the Chopin 4th Ballade: they tell you that some sort of magic is about to be revealed, but what kind of magic remains a mystery until the piece proper starts. You can only really appreciate this properly in live performance: recordings, however good, inevitably mask these subtle dynamics. Michelangeli was electrifying here. Play them as a run-of-the-mill flourish, and they become pedestrian - all magic is lost.

[chicoscalco]

It's the range required throughout the first six bars - look carefully at the markings throughout, including what happens after the piu p. These six bars are like the introductory bars of the Chopin 4th Ballade: they tell you that some sort of magic is about to be revealed, but what kind of magic remains a mystery until the piece proper starts. You can only really appreciate this properly in live performance: recordings, however good, inevitably mask these subtle dynamics. Michelangeli was electrifying here. Play them as a run-of-the-mill flourish, and they become pedestrian - all magic is lost.

Oh this is different and I agree 100%. Also agree that it is one of the most difficult parts of the piece.

[aaronpetit]

Hi, I am not sure how beneficial this will be if you are looking for technical ways to practice it, but here is a master class that I was in with Paul Roberts... someone who has lived with debussy his whole life and recorded all of his piano music...

[invictious]

Hi, I am not sure how beneficial this will be if you are looking for technical ways to practice it, but here is a master class that I was in with Paul Roberts... someone who has lived with debussy his whole life and recorded all of his piano music...

I am not kidding you, I actually watched that masterclass just over two weeks ago.

Your playing is very deep and wonderful! That fact that you have only been playing piano for 3.5 years just makes it even more so impressive!

What an honour to have you on the forums!

[aaronpetit]

I am not kidding you, I actually watched that masterclass just over two weeks ago.

Your playing is very deep and wonderful! That fact that you have only been playing piano for 3.5 years just makes it even more so impressive!

What an honour to have you on the forums!

Wow! What are the odds! Haha. Thanks for the comments. Good luck with this piece let me know how it goes and if any specific questions come up feel free to ask me. I may not know the answer but I will try. Yea I love these forums I learn a lot from them.

[invictious]

Thank you all for your help!

So far I already went through the whole piece already (fine I'll admit it, I slacked off at some points during these weeks). I just cannot stop playing the last two pages! I am going start receiving complaints from neighbours at this rate.

I am still struggling with the arpeggio section @#$%^&. The sections after the arpeggios are not too bad, but the arpeggios #$%^&.

After I master the arpeggios, there are still many places to be refined and polished, so there is still a long way to go!

[louispodesta]

1) I have an affinity for Debussy, and I play it well.  Also, it takes me very little time to master a particular piece of this composer, WITH ONE EXCEPTION!

2)  I have been working on the OP's piece for almost 25 years.  Why?  Because, it has a level of intricate shading, far beyond the composer's technical abilities at the piano (he never performed it), and

3)  The work tells a very personal and intricate story.  Claude Debussy wrote this piece for his mistress (who later became his wife).  He worked on it in stages, and the final autograph shows handwritten love notes in the margin.

4)  In terms of modern popular music, this piece was the first number one single in the history of piano music.  When this story made the rounds, this piece sold over 10,000 copies in six months, in Paris alone.  Further, none of them could even remotely play it.

And, after Mrs. Debussy found out about all of this, she took a derringer and shot herself in the chest, and she lived!

So, the work needs to inhabit throughout, in my opinion, not only the concept of the sex, but also the sea (relating to the Isle of Jersey), where their affair took itself to the highest level.

The last seven measures of the piece are nothing more than a sexual climax.  Scroll up to the Horowitz' recording and listen for yourself because that is the way he played it.

Therefore, in terms of the associated nuance of all of this, if any of you out there would like to share some ideas on the intricacies of all of this (regarding particular measures), then I would very much like to do this.