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Wrist Staccato (Read 7048 times)

Offline outin

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #50 on: February 14, 2014, 07:00:32 PM »

I find it rather amusing that you think I see would see myself in all students.

That's not exactly what I wrote, but I completely understand that you feel threatened. It is completely normal to get defensive in situations like this. But it would really benefit you to learn to understand yourself better. I know how it is since I have experience with it too. Before I got older and had more life experience, I also was often unable to differentiate between ideas that I wanted to be true and those that could objectively be considered so.

Offline outin

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #51 on: February 14, 2014, 07:03:54 PM »
If a teacher considers something important enough to be worth pointing out during a lesson, a student who considers it "interference" (thus judging that they know more than the teacher about what causes negative bad habits) should either be open minded enough to listen to their teacher or they should sack the teacher whose advice they consider an interference and go with their own authority outright.

Since English is your first language, you obviously have the language skills to understand what I write. Yet you have got it completely wrong. So I can only conclude that either there are other limitations in your comprehension or you are just trolling.

Offline nyiregyhazi

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #52 on: February 14, 2014, 07:10:25 PM »
That's not exactly what I wrote, but I completely understand that you feel threatened. It is completely normal to get defensive in situations like this. But it would really benefit you to learn to understand yourself better. I know how it is since I have experience with it too. Before I got older and had more life experience, I also was often unable to differentiate between ideas that I wanted to be true and those that could objectively be considered so.

"Whatever you have experienced you insist others must have experienced too"

I have no idea what you think I might be threatened by. I'm just telling you straight up that what you have said is exactly the attitude I took when I made the least learning and when I was converging on a wall, with only very superficial progress. Deal with that information in whatever manner you wish but, given that I've had a lot more pianistic experience than yourself, it's probably not terribly sensible to pull an experience card. I got my experience through a variety of different mindsets (which I have constantly adapted both as student and teacher). If you reach diploma level through your narrow approach, by all means come back and pull the experience card once you're there.

Offline outin

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #53 on: February 14, 2014, 07:26:32 PM »
"Whatever you have experienced you insist others must have experienced too"

I have no idea what you think I might be threatened by. I'm just telling you straight up that what you have said is exactly the attitude I took when I made the least learning and when I was converging on a wall, with only very superficial progress. Deal with that information in whatever manner you wish but, given that I've had a lot more pianistic experience than yourself, it's probably not terribly sensible to pull an experience card. I got my experience through a variety of different mindsets (which I have constantly adapted both as student and teacher). If you reach diploma level through your narrow approach, by all means come back and pull the experience card once you're there.

I was not referring to pianistic experience at all, but experience in understanding human learning and behavior. That should have been clear from my post.

Offline nyiregyhazi

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #54 on: February 14, 2014, 07:31:38 PM »
I was not referring to pianistic experience at all, but experience in understanding human learning and behavior. That should have been clear from my post.


No, but you should be referring to that. Doing it "your way" without it rarely yields the best fruit. I was lucky to get grade 8 doing it "my way". Most who are not willing to learn from pianistic experience don't even get that far unless they learn humility...

PS if all your life experience tells you that you know more than your teacher about how to learn effectively, I'll look elsewhere for non pianistic guidance too.

Offline pianoman53

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #55 on: February 14, 2014, 07:39:35 PM »
*Runs to grab his popcorn, and puts on his 3D-glasses*


Btw, she just wrote that it's her teacher who tells her to do that... So apparently, people can have a different opinion, and still be teachers... But I guess they are all fake, and have absolute no knowledge in anything.

*Keeps eating the popcorn*

Offline outin

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #56 on: February 14, 2014, 07:48:46 PM »
Well, I don't know what standard you are, but (seeing as you openly presume superiority to my own position) at the time I was playing the first movement of Rachmaninoff's 2nd concerto with orchestra. I was very lucky to have got that far, considering my attitude. If you honestly expect to handle things well enough to go further than I did via narrow mindedness, I wish you the best of luck.



I do not care for Rach so have no interest in playing his concerto. It is quite clear to me that when it comes to playing skills you are far superior to me. But I am curious: How many years have you spent learning the piano (altogether)? 15? 20? To even start comparing the results of our learning strategies, we must take into account the time spent and also the differences in our general physical abilities. A healthy able bodied young man is obviously better equipped to learn demanding works than someone much older who also suffers from muscular and skeletal disorders. Our goals must be very different. For me it never was about being able to play monstrous works, but to play pieces within my reach with the best quality possible.

Offline outin

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #57 on: February 14, 2014, 07:59:38 PM »

PS if all your life experience tells you that you know more than your teacher about how to learn effectively, I'll look elsewhere for non pianistic guidance too.

Yes, my life experience (having spent all my life in my own body with my own brain) tells me that I know better than any teacher how I learn best. Which does not mean that I know better than my teacher what I should learn to do, what I should pay attention to and what I should achieve regarding specific challenges. My teacher is extremely demanding, nothing goes past her and we spend most of our lesson time going through small details. None of my other teachers has been like this and neither are any of the teachers of my adult friends who take lessons. I am extremely grateful to her that she has the persistence to keep giving me all these challenges and thus enable me to learn to play better, even though she could just let me play the way that feels easy no matter how poor the results.

Offline nyiregyhazi

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #58 on: February 14, 2014, 08:02:01 PM »
I do not care for Rach so have no interest in playing his concerto. It is quite clear to me that when it comes to playing skills you are far superior to me. But I am curious: How many years have you spent learning the piano (altogether)? 15? 20? To even start comparing the results of our learning strategies, we must take into account the time spent and also the differences in our general physical abilities. A healthy able bodied young man is obviously better equipped to learn demanding works than someone much older who also suffers from muscular and skeletal disorders. Our goals must be very different. For me it never was about being able to play monstrous works, but to play pieces within my reach with the best quality possible.

Mine too. Eventually I realised that doing it "my way" wasn't enough to make that happen. So I learned to grit my teeth and be completely subservient to what expert teachers asked me to do. It never stopped me being my own person when practising. My only regret is how late I came to find that kind of teaching and how relatively little of it I've had the chance to receive. I'm not an authoritarian teacher myself, but neither am I naturally subservient as a pupil. If you can be humble enough to take that kind of teaching from someone who knows how to organise it right (so it clarifies rather than confuses) you will make leaps and bounds.

Offline nyiregyhazi

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #59 on: February 14, 2014, 08:11:24 PM »
Yes, my life experience (having spent all my life in my own body with my own brain) tells me that I know better than any teacher how I learn best. Which does not mean that I know better than my teacher what I should learn to do, what I should pay attention to and what I should achieve regarding specific challenges. My teacher is extremely demanding, nothing goes past her and we spend most of our lesson time going through small details. None of my other teachers has been like this and neither are any of the teachers of my adult friends who take lessons. I am extremely grateful to her that she has the persistence to keep giving me all these challenges and thus enable me to learn to play better, even though she could just let me play the way that feels easy no matter how poor the results.

That all sounds very good to me. All I'd say is that if you can be open minded enough to try things on the spot, if the teacher wishes you to, you may learn even more still from their experience. People easily feel judged in that situation, but there's no need. Just take all the pressure off yourself and go slowly and thoughtfully. If the teacher has something to say, remind yourself of their experience and your respect for them. Then simply try. You might be surprised what you can achieve.

Offline pianoman53

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Re: Wrist Staccato
«Reply #60 on: February 14, 2014, 08:19:53 PM »
For crying out loud! Leave her alone dammit! She lived an entire life figuring out how to learn. How do you even dare to think you know better?

1. You haven't met her.
2. You have probably never heard her play
3. You haven't met her teacher.
4. You haven't been her for an entire life
5. You haven't seen her progress - you don't know where she started and where she is
6. You haven't asked about her goals yet
7. You haven't asked her teacher about neither her abilities or progress


Dammit, don't always think you know eeeeeheeeeverything better than everyone!
For you it might work, but she clearly tried, and it didn't work.

It's not even funny how you always do this. Every topic you enter turns into this. Someone says "No, it doesn't work for me" and you say "NO, YOU ARE WRONG!! I WAS LIKE THAT! NOW I'M BETTER AND I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU!!!". just.. Gah, grow up!