non standard tuning

[robertarato]

hello colleagues, does anybody have a modern piano tuned to anything else than standard 440/443 hz? why and what are your experiences? any compatibility issues with the music production industry?

[faulty_damper]

Do people really tune it to 443?  440 is already bright enough as it is and some people want it brighter?

I used to tune my piano down to 438 because the tone was warmer.  I still think 438 is a better sound quality than 440.

[quantum]

Pianos at my university had log books stored inside them with tuning dates and pitch.  Many of the tunings were 441, 442, or 443. 

[justharmony]

So you consider simply tuning at a slightly different pitch level to be non-standard tuning?  I thought you were going to ask about unequal temperament - something which I HAVE had my piano tuned in, and which I have enjoyed - but I guess that's not what you're asking?

[faulty_damper]

Pianos at my university had log books stored inside them with tuning dates and pitch.  Many of the tunings were 441, 442, or 443. 

Yeah, the same deal at my university.  The concert grands were tuned to 442hz but I don't remember what the tech said the reason was.  During chamber music or piano concertos, the string players would be annoyed because they had to tune higher, especially the ones with perfect pitch.   

[hfmadopter]

my piano is not modern, As in decades, even centeries and it just sounds best tuned to A438. It's at a loose 440 right now ( need tuning, I have not done it's winter tuning). Except to duet with my digital which can be tuned in seconds to anything I want, I only play it solo but no it wouldn't get along with other instruments that were not tuned the same.

It's tuned in equal temperament but I am changing that for one tuning and see how I like it. I love it on the digital.

I would never tune above 440, that's too bright for my ears as it is sometimes. I really like 438, the piano sounds best there and was built before 440 was the standard so it was probably manufactured at 438 or less.

[justharmony]

During chamber music or piano concertos, the string players would be annoyed because they had to tune higher, especially the ones with perfect pitch.   

Were they annoyed truly because of the pitch level (which, at 441 vs. 440, say, is extremely slight) or were they annoyed because of the temperament? Strings tune in perfect fifths, left on their own.  I've seen many confounded string players trying to tune their normal way alongside of a pianist whose instrument is in equal temperament that uses tempered fifths.  The discrepancy can be very unsettling and annoying -especially to those who don't know what's going on.

I just have to wonder.

"Perfect pitch" to the degree that you are talking about - where one is driven nuts by such a slight difference in pitch - would, I think, drive anyone nuts - especially a pianist who very often does not have any control over the tuning or the pitch level of the instrument upon which one plays.  I am glad I am not cursed with such a strong pitch memory as that. 

[faulty_damper]

Were they annoyed truly because of the pitch level (which, at 441 vs. 440, say, is extremely slight) or were they annoyed because of the temperament? ...

No, they were annoyed because they normally tune to A440 so having to tune up to 442 is a lot.  There was always some grumbling when they had to play with a piano.  And the difference between 440 and 441 is actually quite significant to tuning to 442 is even more noticeable.

[justharmony]

Umm... I don't get it.  The difference between 440 and 442 is about 4 cents.  The threshold considered necessary for most people to perceive a difference in pitch is about 5 cents.  Am I missing something here?

[faulty_damper]

You have to know what it feels like to tune a violin to 440, hear the piano reference A which is 442, then play your A string and hear the beats.  It's a lot and utterly annoying.

Also, most people refers to non-musicians who don't have musical training.  I'm sure musicians, who've had extensive amounts of exposure to 440 so are more sensitive to it, are able to tell when it's off slightly.

[cybercatcher]

The difference between 440 and 442 is about 4 cents.  

It's about 7.69cents. 442-440/[(440*1.059-440)/100]≒7.69

In addition, the pitch of the piano music of Halls of Japan, is to 442hz.
Probably for the same as the standard pitch of the orchestras in Japan.

[faulty_damper]

In addition, the pitch of the piano music of Halls of Japan, is to 442hz.
Probably for the same as the standard pitch of the orchestras in Japan.

Why are Japanese orchestras tuned so much higher?  Is it a cultural reason due to the higher pitch of Japan's classical instruments which tend to be very bright?

[cybercatcher]

Why are Japanese orchestras tuned so much higher?  Is it a cultural reason due to the higher pitch of Japan's classical instruments which tend to be very bright?

I think regardless of the traditional instruments of Japan, it's the same as the preference of the orchestras in Europe.　Classical music world in Japan, seems to longing to Europe. The popular music of Japan likes American music, 441hz and 440hz is preferred.

[g_s_223]

A string instrument, being made of just wood, is very sensitive to the tension of the strings. Since the frequency of a string is proportional to the square root of the tension, a given raise in pitch requires a higher and non-linear increase in tension. As well as affecting the resonances in the instrument, this change in tension affects the very complex relationship of the player's bow speed and pressure over the strings to produce an optimal sound. String players do need to get used to handling changes in humidity and pitch, but multiplying the difficulties doesn't help.

[faulty_damper]

A string instrument, being made of just wood, is very sensitive to the tension of the strings. Since the frequency of a string is proportional to the square root of the tension, a given raise in pitch requires a higher and non-linear increase in tension. As well as affecting the resonances in the instrument, this change in tension affects the very complex relationship of the player's bow speed and pressure over the strings to produce an optimal sound. String players do need to get used to handling changes in humidity and pitch, but multiplying the difficulties doesn't help.

So this is why they always grumble about it.  It's that much more difficult to adjust at the higher frequency due to the physical-acoustic changes.  Makes sense to me, but I'm not a violinist.  I imagine the cellists or bassists don't mind because I've never heard them complain, just the violinists mostly and occasionally the violists.