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Topic: About stool height and Liszt  (Read 2591 times)

Offline alexm88

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About stool height and Liszt
on: February 22, 2014, 08:15:50 PM
Hello pianostreet members

So i'm not new to this forum, but this is my first post because it is the first time i can't find an answer to my question :)

I've been working on Liszt's la Campanella for three months and i'm rather satisfied with the progress i've done so far knowing that i can't play a lot because of my studies.

However, there is something weird: usually, i sit at my piano at the "standard" level, ie elbows at the keyboard level. But for this piece, i just CAN'T play it at a normal level: if i do i miss notes and i can't play fast octaves neither can i play fast 4-5 trills, and above all i get exhausted very quickly.

But if i sit high (elbows above key level) it is a lot better and i don't get tired.
I have also noticed that i am physically more comfortable with Liebestraume no 3 (which i play very well) central part when i sit high but i still prefer to sit at normal level for this piece in order to get a more colorful fortissimo.

What do you think about that? Is it normal, is it bad?
I should also precise that i have very small hands (i can't do more than an octave).

Thank you

Alex

(sorry for my english, i'm french)

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #1 on: February 23, 2014, 03:51:22 AM


Why do the French (especially Parisians) hate Americans?

Offline alexm88

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #2 on: February 23, 2014, 09:11:06 AM
1) I'm not parisian
2) I don't hate americans
3) I can't see how a painting of Liszt would answer my question
I'm just asking if someone had a piece of advice, for example someone having already experienced this.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #3 on: February 23, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
1. That still doesn't answer why the French hate Americans.
2. Liszt sat high at the keyboard.
3. It obviously worked for him.
4. Thus, sitting high is a non-issue.

Offline alexm88

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #4 on: February 23, 2014, 11:26:27 AM
But french people don't hate americans :) (in general though)

Offline gregh

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #5 on: February 23, 2014, 11:31:23 AM
But the Germans haven't been very happy with us lately.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #6 on: February 23, 2014, 02:17:57 PM
Why do French always make derogatory comments about Americans in Paris then?  Americans don't hate the French at all.

Offline pianoman53

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #7 on: February 23, 2014, 02:40:55 PM
Why do French always make derogatory comments about Americans in Paris then?  Americans don't hate the French at all.
Unless you'd find some oil in France. Then they would all be terrorists.

Offline oxy60

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #8 on: February 23, 2014, 06:43:40 PM
The poster asked a perfectly valid question to which I was anxious to see what answers you all would contribute. You should be ashamed of yourselves! What kind of trivialities, BS, and belittling are you going to come up with next?

Doesn't any one of you have any answer to the question posed?
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline 1piano4joe

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #9 on: February 23, 2014, 07:41:50 PM
Hi alexm88,

There is nothing wrong with sitting with elbows a little higher than the keyboard. This is the "standard" level for many, many people!

Bernhard has a post that says, "A drop of water on your forearms should roll down toward your hands and away from your elbow".

I recently started sitting both higher and further away and was able to play faster this way.

This is not weird at all. There are physical laws dealing with levers, gravity and anatomical considerations as why this is so. So speed walls can exist if your sitting too low. On easier pieces, one might be able to get away with less then OPTIMAL bench height and sitting too close or too far.

However, this can become more of an issue for certain people as one progresses to more and more difficult repertoire.

Generally, professional athletes use the best equipment and some even utilize computer software to analyze body position and movements to gain that slight improvement. The better one gets in anything in life, the more difficult it becomes to improve. Piano is no different. So, a baseball player wants his 95 mile per hour fastball to be 96 miles per hour and a pianist plays at 160 beats per minute but needs to play at 168 beats per minute. These are more similar than one may initially think.

Isn't it possible, that with baseball, faster pitches are possible but with loss of control? This sounds like me with piano and tempo. If I play too fast I may lose control and play a wrong note but fortunately the wrong note doesn't come running towards me angrily with a baseball bat! If I pitch too fast and lost control I might bean the batter in the head! So, yeah control is very, very important especially self-control which so many people lose way too easily these days.

So sit higher and, "Don't Worry, Be Happy" that you discovered this. I read a post here about fast repeated chords and that was how I found this out. It worked like magic.

Also, I tend to slouch. This really lowers your elbows. So, it's possible that it is not the bench height at all but in fact a posture problem.

I hope I have been helpful, Joe.

P.S. Interesting about the "Liebestraume no 3". I guess it would be possible to sit high for comfort and then slouch ever so slightly for that colorful fortissimo. I feel a little better about my slouching now.

Thank you, Joe.

And Welcome to Pianostreet!

Offline j_menz

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #10 on: February 23, 2014, 10:26:19 PM
Why do French always make derogatory comments about Americans in Paris then?  Americans don't hate the French at all.

There was the whole "cheese eating surrender monkeys" thing.  ::)
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline pianoman53

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 10:40:33 PM
Glenn Gould sat way to low for the standards, but it worked for him.
Therefore, I will come with the highly non-scientific answer: If it makes you play better, and it doesn't hurt, it works.

Offline outin

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #12 on: February 24, 2014, 05:28:30 AM
Wouldn't it depend on one's body structure as well? I think I've tried all the possible combinations of bench height/distance and I always end up sitting quite low and far away. That's the only way my arms, elbows and wrists feel free. I have very long arms and legs and a rather short back so if I want to sit closer I need to sit really high which makes pedalling uncomfortable and my wrists low which is bad for them.

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 07:38:58 AM
Hello pianostreet members

So i'm not new to this forum, but this is my first post because it is the first time i can't find an answer to my question :)

I've been working on Liszt's la Campanella for three months and i'm rather satisfied with the progress i've done so far knowing that i can't play a lot because of my studies.

However, there is something weird: usually, i sit at my piano at the "standard" level, ie elbows at the keyboard level. But for this piece, i just CAN'T play it at a normal level: if i do i miss notes and i can't play fast octaves neither can i play fast 4-5 trills, and above all i get exhausted very quickly.

But if i sit high (elbows above key level) it is a lot better and i don't get tired.
I have also noticed that i am physically more comfortable with Liebestraume no 3 (which i play very well) central part when i sit high but i still prefer to sit at normal level for this piece in order to get a more colorful fortissimo.

What do you think about that? Is it normal, is it bad?
I should also precise that i have very small hands (i can't do more than an octave).

Thank you

Alex

(sorry for my english, i'm french)

For me elbows slightly higher seems to work best but not so high that the wrist is always bent. A measure would probably be a few cm higher. Not much 

Offline pianoplayer51

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #14 on: February 25, 2014, 04:45:44 PM
I went for a piano lesson a few weeks ago.  The particular stool was not adjustable and was too low therefore my shoulders were hunched.  I have been sitting at this stool for a while and it was not a problem but when I was doing some chromatic scales, somehow doing them at speed made my shoulders hunch up and so my teacher said next time we will use the adjustable stool and make it higher. 

I am also a trained typist and it applies to typists as well.  You need to sit higher than your keyboard

Offline g_s_223

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #15 on: February 25, 2014, 10:47:39 PM
The tell-tale sign that something is wrong is your exhaustion - most likely due to tension building up in your forearm. Therefore definitely change position to avoid this happening.

In Monique Dechaussées' excellent book on the Chopin Etudes
https://www.amazon.fr/24-Etudes-Chopin-Vers-interpr%C3%A9tation/dp/2858682240/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388456440&sr=1-2 she gives useful tips on the avoidance of tension.

P.S. Ignore the off-topic posts, that sort of discussion belongs in the Anything But Piano forum.

Offline alexm88

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Re: About stool height and Liszt
Reply #16 on: March 01, 2014, 10:31:52 AM
Ok thank you very much all for your replies, i'm feeling better about it now.
For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
New Piano Piece by Chopin Discovered – Free Piano Score

A previously unknown manuscript by Frédéric Chopin has been discovered at New York’s Morgan Library and Museum. The handwritten score is titled “Valse” and consists of 24 bars of music in the key of A minor and is considered a major discovery in the wold of classical piano music. Read more
 

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