Painting Music

[deemon1]

Hello

I'm an advanced piano student and also a fine arts painter of pictures that I would describe as impressionistic realism.  I've been thinking about trying to paint a piano composition and would appreciate any and all ideas as I can't think of a better group to pose this question to than yourselves.

If you were going to illustrate a piano piece (or perhaps a movement from a particular piece, or even a series of canvasses depicting an entire work), what music would you choose and how would you illustrate it?

Thanks, D.

[Bob]

Impressionist sounds easier, but that's just a first thought.  Or maybe abstract and 20th century music.  4:33 would probably be fairly easy.

[deemon1]

Thanks Bob - have to admit that that was an unexpected recommendation. I guess it could be really easy or really hard depending on what needs to be in the painting.  It's my understanding that the purpose of 4.33 was to capture all of the sounds not produced by the instrument (is that right?), but I'm not an expert on this piece. --D

[Bob]

4:33 I would picture as just being a blank canvas. The viewer sees whatever... Whatever the eyes produce, shadows on the canvas, the texture of that, etc.  Someone's probably already done it before though.

I was thinking it would be easier if it was really tying music styles to art periods.  If it's Classical... Wouldn't it have to very realistic?  And balanced, etc. Impressionism just sounds a little more vague, and that's what I pictured at first, those painting on the covers of Debussy or collections like that.

If it's 20th century, I would think it could be easier again.  Pointillistic? Random dots on the canvas.  Orchestra scream?  Toss paint across the canvas.  Something like that. 

I wonder how much translates like that.  Duple time is an up/down for conducting.  Compound time (division of the beat into 3's) get more circular motion.

I would think art is something like one moment of music or possibly covering several moments over the course of a piece.  It can get around time.

[deemon1]

Hello Bob,

Ok, taking off from your ideas, I've been thinking along similar lines.  I was thinking that a major key would be represented by warmer colors like red or yellow, being brighter when the music is louder and more subdued when it's being played pianissimo. Same for minor keys, except the colors would be cooler in nature, blues/greens and the like.  I hadn't thought about tempo, but I think you have a really good idea there and will incorporate it into my thinking.  You've also made me think a lot about the actual style of the painting in relation to the type of music, i.e., realistic/classical, abstract/ modern and I think you're on point there as well (are you a painter by chance?). I'm not opposed to doing three or four separate canvasses to represent the different musical themes in one piece.  Any thoughts about Rhapsody in Blue? Thanks, D.

[Bob]

It's just the periods of ideas in art.  I think literature goes first.  The same ideas come out in music and visual arts, etc.

The circles vs. angles was from conducting classes.


Tempo could be shown with movement.  Fast tempo, lots of movement.  Slow tempo, no movement or far away.


Rhapsody in Blue?   I'm thinking of the Disney Fantasia 2000.  And there's some style of art... I can't find it though....
I'm thinking 1920s though.  That wasn't quite what I was thinking before, but it's there.
https://www.history.com/topics/roaring-twenties

The color on this Harlem Renaissance...
https://www.history.com/topics/roaring-twenties/videos/the-harlem-renaissance

I suppose events and achievement could be part of it.  That's not as literal as translating music into image though.  I think Fantasia 2000 has that though -- Rhapsody in Blue... Radio towers, street sign changers....  Even "city" sounds correct for Rhapsody in Blue.  I suppose the opening clarinet line could be its own painting.

Hmm... I think the image I was thinking of before was...
https://www.georgejgoodstadt.com/goodstadt/t/ira_and_george_gershwin_thumb.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Hirschfeld
Except I was thinking in color.   That kind of distorted shape though.


I still lean toward skipping the events, achievements, etc.  and going with translating emotion in music to image or movement in sound to movement in image.

Although something with skyscraper does seem right too.

There are the elements of it.  It's jazz plus Jewish plus Western form, etc. or trying to do that.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhapsody_in_blue
Also Gershwin following "How to Write for an Orchestra 101."  

Maybe something with the instrumentation?  

I could see it being something completely different, but still "Rhapsody in Blue"-ish.  A city skyline.  Or a grand piano.  But any object, more of a RinB style to it that would still be "it."

Could steal some ideas from the notation...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/Rhapsody_in_Blue_bb1-2.png
That's got the look to it of the opening line.

I see sections of the orchestra in my mind too when I'm listening to it.  Bass... Bigger things in the back, slower, more power...

Something about color or lighting too, like that Harlem image above.  RinB would have more sizzle, be more in your face than a serious symphony, but it not be too gawdy.

Could be abstract too.  

This one kind of has a color sizzle.
https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5051962/il_fullxfull.283778918.jpg?ref=l2
I looked up 1920s art, but a lot of those look kind of blah and faded, even for what they were originally.

I'd say RinB is fresh.  Elegant too.


This one kind of has it. On the left.
https://images.lacarmina.com/130202_art_deco_weekend_miami_flapper_hair_1920s_architecture_fashion_south_beach_8.jpg

Something with the lines on this one.  I'm probably thinking of that Gatsby movie...
https://cdn2.warmlyyours.com/public/images/blog-kit/1025/original/brafton_photo20130605-5700-13axvre-0?1370489405


I bet watching a conductor would generate some ideas.  They get the expression down and turn it into movement.  A conductor is only movement and doing non-verbal communication.  They don't produce any sound themselves.  They're showing it, and leading/directing/showing the performer what the music should sound like visually.


Yeah.  I bet that Al Herschfeld image stuff came from Fantasia 2000.

-- Except RinB isn't Disney character smooth/sloppy.
I don't see any storyline in RinB like this though.  Not al all.

I keep picturing more abstract things in space, black background.


Maybe the reoccurring motives?  

Dang.  No image, but the clarinet line is there.  Clear audio.
That clarinet line sounds like something unfolding, like a vine spinning/rolling out.



This might have it.
https://artstyleonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/mr-art-deco-2.jpg

Might have it a bit with the buildings.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Q4PGSI1rhaU/Swrpq96Sr7I/AAAAAAAAAFM/MiD76GD5-qA/s1600/metropolis.jpg

Might have it a bit, but muted.
https://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/05/disney-art-yzma-1920s-fashion.jpg

Dang.  I don't think the Fantasia 2000 video is up on youtube.  Audio, yes, but not the video.  There might be more ideas there, and just in any Fantasia stuff for translating music into image.
Another clip

This intro stuff has the translation idea.  
Bassoon... rain.
Military style... solider.  Makes sense.
I remember this piece and story seemed to fit.  This one stood out to me in Fantasia 2000.  The RiB wasn't quite right to me in Fantasia 2000.


Another source -- Pianists hands on the keys.  Literally motion of the music there.

[gvans]

Fun and interesting project. Since the piano is such an intrinsically beautiful object, especially the keyboard, it would be hard not to use it visually--even though it has been done many times before and the the risk of cliche/literalism is high. Still...it would be hard  not to include it. The shape, especially of a grand, is so wonderfully asymmetric and curvaceous, how could you not incorporate it into a painting?

Check out the paintings of Miles Davis, the late jazz trumpeter. He did some fascinating stuff you might want to riff off of.

[deemon1]

It took me a while to read and then think about your ideas - thank you for many great suggestions and providing the references. Now the problem would be how to actually represent and then design the painting. I know the score very well having played the piano solo and duet, as well as listening to the orchestral version.  Do you see it as perhaps a series of paintings capturing the major themes of the piece - using a lot of your ideas - or possibly a series of paintings that depict a number of measures? Certainly these could be a city, band, people from the time period, etc. I'm leaning more towards a series of paintings because it might be really hard (but not necessarily impossible) to incorporate so many impressions into one canvas - I'd really like your thoughts on this.  I was also thinking about maybe doing an actual representational portrayal of a city and then superimposing the notes or "suggestions" of the notes over the painting of the city.  As for the beginning - wow that clarinet- could be a comet in space coming from the bottom to the top of the canvas- squiggly at the bottom to capture the trill, straightening out, and becoming brighter and more intense, brighter, and wider as it goes to the top and then bursting into a sun or several suns.  Of course, there would be more, but that's also one way to do it. Or, I could go totally abstract and paint the notes/sounds in a figurative way.

And gevans, I do agree with you that a piano is so wonderfully captivating - not to mention its prominence in the piece - that it would have to somehow be incorporated - the shape and keys lend themselves well to abstract but could also actually make up part of a building or buildings in a city scene.

Would appreciate your thoughts on some of these half-baked ideas.  Thanks. --D

[brogers70]

I think one interesting thing to do would be to avoid impressionistic and even remotely programmatic music. Try translating a Bach suite into a painting; instead of repeated rhythmic motifs displaced in pitch, for example, use repeated patterns of value in different tones, or repeated patterns of tones in different values. Each movement of a Bach suite has a definite affect, which could set the overall tone of the canvas. Even if you don't try it, I might. I'm glad you got me thinking about it.

[deemon1]

I hope you seriously consider doing that - great concept.

[lelle]

I love the idea of painting music, I really wish I could paint. If I could I would try to capture emotions and the poetry I hear in pieces by Debussy or Chopin. The D minor prelude of Chopin for example would be in fiery, vibrant and dark colours cascading, illustrating the storm and the suffering and upheaval.  I would love to be able to capture the kind of texture this guy has in his work, I think it's perfect for illustrating music:

[gvans]

Thanks for your note, deemon. A piano incorporated into a city scene--great idea. Buildings made of pianos. Another idea is dancers made of notes. Here's a link to a Miles Davis collection:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2013/11/10/the-unknown-art-of-miles-davis.html#a7d2ab17-c692-40ad-9974-de9b436ff01b