Mozart music lovers and bashers....

[Daniel_piano]

Now, this thread is made to group all Mozart  lovers (bashers are not allowed)
I've read that Mozart music is uninteresting to many and his music is boring
Now, I love any period from Romanticism, to Impresionnism, Neorelism and Baroque simply because I think no human being can say to be only a Romanticist, only an impressionist
There's a little piece of me on each style, each period and each composer
I don't understand why people hate Mozart when they say that like Romantic and sad music or vicerversa
I'm not a robot... I'm both sad, happy, positivist, depressed, joyful, vendicative, generous, evil, strong, weak, believer, nonbeliever, cretive, destructive, light, profound
There a musical style that match any mood I may have during the day that's why I can't understand how can someone live being sad all the time and listening only sad music or being happy al the time and listening only happy music
If I'm sad I listen to sad music, I'm happy I listen to happy music, if I'm relaxed I'm listen to relaxing music, if I want to dance I listen that dancing music
What is really sad is seeing how people are losing all their emotional features while becoming more and more similar to computers, with the same ideas, the same ideologies, the same rigid belief and doing the same repetive things all the day
And always labeling eveything without acceptiong that we can't be labeled because we're not just one entity but  hundreds of different personalities is making thing even more robotic-wise
That being said if you're tired of hearing that idiocy that Mozart music is childish and therefore puerile (while it's not childish but childlike and being childlike is far better than being serious grown ups since children have showed a lot of times that they are far more mature that grown ups and their idiot wars and crimes) then let others know that you exist
I've read a lot about the Mozart effect and as a matter of fact Mozart childlike music is liked by children, plants, animals and our cells, so since every natural strong manifenstation of perfection take advantage of Mozart music qualities there must be something wrong in the serious grown ups mind since they're not responding to the very nature that created them (how smart... no wonder there's no hope for the planet enviroment and our survivor)
The most disturbing thing is that people on the Western countries with all their middle-class opulence feel the right to bash happyness and tender sentiments justifying this with their "problems", while people on third world countries where life is really tough like few of us can really imagine never dared to forget the force of happyness and the right to be happy
They're poor, sick and suffering and yes they're the one making charities for other third countries world while smiling and singing their joy
Balance is balance, and subjective tastes are subjective tastes, but to bash everything is happy, light, tender and even corn as puerile and childish because "life is pain, life is sufference" is ridicolous especially when these words (and usually that how it works) come from people that don't know a yota about real suffering
To say that is you're suffering you must show off your sufference, only listen and compose sad music and always attack anything that is happy and joyful is even ridicolous from a neurophychoimmunological point of view since it has been proven that happy thoughts, happy music, happy images and happy people can heal our body and our depressions while lay on your sufference is what will eventually result in suicide
I'm still a lover of sad music and sad emotions but there is no a senseful objective basis to defend "sadness at all cost, down with happyness" point of view, neither from a human nor from a scientiifical point of view
So, if people want tell us that positivity is not good and that happyness is childish and boring then this person must add a big IMO while giving up all the tentative to find a hint of objectivity in such a sentence
 
Enough with other music bashing
I hate rap myself but I am even tired or hearing from snob accademic students that rap is not music and that is objectively a crap
Everything I love or hate in music is subjective as I'm honest enough not to try to find ridicolous objective justifications for my tastes

Popular music is artistic like accademic music and childlike happy music is artistic and profound like sad and romantic music, and if you like one or hate the other...sorry but objective facts can't back up your tastes; so stop trying

So, Mozart lovers out there, share with us why you like Mozart music, what emotions you find in it that make you love it?

Daniel


 

 

[Glissando]

I LOVE Mozart. I always have, and I love to play his stuff. I can't understand how you couldn't love his music.
His music is so calming, lyrical, melodious, calming, invigorating, inspiring, etc.
To me, Baroque music is more orderly- sometimes almost systematic. The Romantic music is more, well kind of letting you passions run rampant.
Mozart's music is the fine line between the two.
To me, it's perfectly balanced. And that's why I love it.
JMNSHO, of course.
(For the record, I like the Baroque and Romantic periods as well- but I can't stand rap/hip hop/rock 'n roll etc., it hurts my ears, and according to Mozart, music that is offensive to the ears in not music at all! So there! )

[chelsey]

I was always highly skeptical of Mozart's music until I played Mozart's Fantasy in C minor. This proved the genius of his composing, and I've appreciated his music since. No other composer that comes to mind can match his melodious simplicity and the wonderful subtleties of his music. His music is unique, but at the same time almost archetypal of what we associate "classical music" (I mean in general - as in all art music, not just specific to the era). It is the sweet simplicity that fronts the harmonic complexities that attracts listeners of all ages and experiences.

Just my POV..

Chelsey

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I love Mozart's music. It's not particularly "flashy", however, that isn't the point of music. It is the most musical and melodious music I have ever heard.

How can people dislike Mozart???

[julie391]

I love Mozart's music. It's not particularly "flashy", however, that isn't the point of music. It is the most musical and melodious music I have ever heard.

How can people dislike Mozart???

i like mozart, but i dont listen that much - he is best in small doses to me

however i have to contest your claim that mozart is the most musical and melodious music - i think this is very subjective

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I love Mozart's music. It's not particularly "flashy", however, that isn't the point of music. It is the most musical and melodious music I have ever heard.

How can people dislike Mozart???

however i have to contest your claim that mozart is the most musical and melodious music - i think this is very subjective

  People always tend to reply to my posts without really reading them. If you would have read my post, you would have realized that I said that it was the most musical and melodious music that I have ever heard. Therefore, you are quite right. It is subjective. But an opinion.

What it seems to me that you thought I said was, "Mozart is simply the most musical and melodious composer, period." That is not what I said.


Ludwig Van Rachabji

[Daniel_piano]

What about Mozart Piano Sonatas?
Do you like them?
I've heard a lot of people saying bad things of his piano Sonatas, as a result of a global adversion toward melodious happy music
But judging without bias, how good, interesting and well developed are piano sonatas to you?
While it's true that you don't get the the "whole Mozart" without listening his orchestral and vocal works I don't think his Sonatas are really boring
At least not all of them
But even if only 10 out of 19 Sonatas of his would be good and interesting that would be a great accomplishment since rarely all the works of a composer are interesting in the same manner
I think that between his Sonatas that are real gems
like K331, K332, K475 K457, K310, K280 and K570 but very interesting are also the K283, K309 and K333
K545 is overplayed and overfamous but yet its qualities can be denied because of this and surely it's an idiocy to consider this sonata "terrible" just because it is "easy"
Some of the easiest piece in the world are also the best ones, so is stupid to judge music beauty according to its difficulty
Seeing how much interesting material there in these piano sonatas pages it's seems to me a total heresy to say that all Mozart piano Sonatas are easily forgettable and boring, but of course this is a subjective opinion that we must respect
But this doesn't mean that it's okay to try justify with improbable objective arguments why Mozart piano Sonatas are not good (to them)

What do Mozart lovers think of his piano sonatas and why

Daniel

[galonia]

I personally feel it is a great mistake to dismiss Mozart's piano sonatas as "happy music", particularly the ones in Major keys.  Beneath the cheerful veneer is a lot of turmoil.  Even in the brightest of melodies, there are extremely poignant moments - these are fleeting and Mozart does it all in a very subtle way, which is why he is such a great composer.

There is no mystery to someone who raves and shouts and openly declares their anger or pain, but the story of the one who puts on a brave face can be particularly heart-wrenching.

[DarkWind]

Mozart is ok in small doses. He just wrote too many happy stuff. Of his 40 something Symphonies, less than 5 of them are in a minor key...

[julie391]

I love Mozart's music. It's not particularly "flashy", however, that isn't the point of music. It is the most musical and melodious music I have ever heard.

How can people dislike Mozart???

however i have to contest your claim that mozart is the most musical and melodious music - i think this is very subjective

  People always tend to reply to my posts without really reading them. If you would have read my post, you would have realized that I said that it was the most musical and melodious music that I have ever heard. Therefore, you are quite right. It is subjective. But an opinion.

What it seems to me that you thought I said was, "Mozart is simply the most musical and melodious composer, period." That is not what I said.


Ludwig Van Rachabji

however - i do assume you have heard rachmaninov.... 

[HomeSchooler]

K545 is overplayed and overfamous but yet its qualities can be denied because of this and surely it's an idiocy to consider this sonata "terrible" just because it is "easy"
****************************************

I think you hit it....

People want to say:  *they play very difficult pieces*...
Mozart does not have that reputation..

so they can't brag....

Just *my opinion*..

Nancy

[julie391]

interestingly, the contrary is becoming true

some musicians realise the unique disposition and sensetivity that is required for mozart, and 'show off' in a similar way.

[Repo_Man]

When I don't like something, it's usually just a matter of time before I 'get it'.

If there're so many people that like a certain kind of music, there must be SOMETHING worthwhile about it... The music is the same, so the difference is in the listener. Ya just gotta ask somebody "Why do you like this?"...

If I can't get into it, I'm probably just not ready yet... But sometimes the appeal for certain music just don't fit to me. Musicians of course, have a very different perspective than teenyboppers groovin' to the dance music in bars for example. Turn on the radio: We focus on the music (obviously!), while others seem to hear the lyrics first and foremost. Rap seems to be for a badarsedness gangsta image more than anything, seems really fake to me but it's a way of life to some kids.

But lets just forget about the commercial 'product' that's pushed onto kids in the guise of music...

Basically, all music can be liked if you listen for the right reasons. Too often people hate Mozart because he's not Chopin, hate Bach because he's not Beethoven... That's just goofy.

[julie391]

as is hating rap  based on extramusical bias.

i am a fan of hip-hop 

[Glissando]

interestingly, the contrary is becoming true

some musicians realise the unique disposition and sensetivity that is required for mozart, and 'show off' in a similar way.

That would be me. I'm good at Mozart.
I think the Sonatas are mostly great, I find them very memorable- I played all three movements of that 'easy' one, it's great fun to play! I like experimenting with the middle movement, you can make it sound very dramatic and gorgeous.

[Repo_Man]

as is hating rap  based on extramusical bias.

i am a fan of hip-hop 

I have a right to hypocrisy!

 

 ...

[julie391]

as is hating rap  based on extramusical bias.

i am a fan of hip-hop 

I have a right to hypocrisy!

 

 ...

no, i was saying its also stupid to hate rap for a non-musucal reason

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I break all of the rules with Mozart. I over-romanticize it, and let me tell you, there is nothing wrong with that. If it fits the piece, by all means, I think pianists should be given the chance to experiment.

It disgusts me when people say that a certain pianist's interpretation is "not right". If the music makes them feel a certain way, then I think that they should be allowed to express themselves in that way, instead of following the "rules of music".

If Mozart hadn't have been so worried about what the audiences of the time would think of his music, he probably would have written much differently. Just look at the introduction to his Dissonance String Quartet. It sounds like Schonberg! Atleast for that one time, he didn't care about what people would think, and composed what he wanted to compose.

Of course, that's just my 2 cents. Everything I just said and a $1.25 might be enough to get you a small coffee at Dunkin' Donuts.

Ludwig Van Rachabji

[julie391]

i completely agree, i like romanticised mozart   

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

i completely agree, i like romanticised mozart   

I'm glad you agree with me. Most of the time, people strongly disagree with my ideas. Thank you! 

Ludwig Van Rachabji

[julie391]

i say - never condemn a pianist for being unique - if anything - bland and ordinary pianists should be condemned

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

i say - never condemn a pianist for being unique - if anything - bland and ordinary pianists should be condemned

That is exactly what I have been trying to convince people of for years! I am so happy I am not alone! 

Ludwig Van Rachabji

[julie391]

i think youll find bernhard has exactly the same opinion, among others

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

i think youll find bernhard has exactly the same opinion, among others

Good news. Very good news.

I have respected Bernhard's intelligence and ideas since the day I came to this forum. He really knows what he's doing, and always has good advice to anybody who needs it. I'm glad we can all agree.

Ludwig Van Rachabji

[julie391]

you made a little mistake there

[claudio]

K545 is overplayed and overfamous but yet its qualities can be denied because of this and surely it's an idiocy to consider this sonata "terrible" just because it is "easy"
****************************************

I think you hit it....

People want to say:  *they play very difficult pieces*...
Mozart does not have that reputation..

so they can't brag....

Just *my opinion*..

Nancy

i just started to learn KV545 and love it. it's great for sightreading, technical studies, harmonics and most of all, after all the work put in, it realy makes the piano come alive with a beautiful melody 

but easy? this piece is a teachers dream  as it is so transparent that you can hear every wrong note. there is absolutely no way to hide. my teacher told me that there is no recording by anton rubinstein of KV545 as he found it too difficult. i wonder if this is true.

[julie391]

well actually, im sure the difficulty was the least of anton's worries as he was dead before he was ever able to be recorded at all.

this reminds me of a story about the young Artur Rubinstein, who on his first concert tour of this country was billed simply as A. Rubinstein - in an attempt to capitalize on the reputation of the late Anton Rubinstein, a pianist who had been quite popular in his time.

Young Rubinstein was scarcely off the boat before he received a fan letter from a lady in the Midwest who wrote: "Dear Mr. Rubinstein: I hope you will perform your celebrated Kamenow-Ostrow when you play for us in Chicago." To which the pianist replied: "Dear Madam, In response to your inquiry, I regret I will be unable to perform my celebrated Kamenow-Ostrow in Chicago, I am dead. Sincerely, A. Rubinstein."

 

[Daniel_piano]

as is hating rap  based on extramusical bias.

i am a fan of hip-hop 

I have a right to hypocrisy!

 

 ...

no, i was saying its also stupid to hate rap for a non-musucal reason

There is no a reason why I dislike rap music
Is simply a matter of unconscious taste
When I listen to it I simply don't care for it
But just because I don't like it I would never say (while many others always do that)
that the reason why I don't like it is because of its objective badness, or the fact that it is less serious than accademic music or that it's not even music
No, this would simply be an idiocy and a false statement
I simply don't like but I aknowledge it's just a personal unexplanainable taste
No one can say that rap is objectively a bad music, as nothing in music is objective and I can't stand when people try to invent absurd objective theories in order to explain their tastes; it's like they want to find a reasonable (that everyone must accept) theory to explain like they don't like it
It's like they don't accept they have tastes or worst yet they would like their tastes to be universal

On the other hand I like (when the piece is good, just because I like a genre it doesn't mean I like every song/piece of that genre) a lot of other popular music including pop, country, rock, rythm'blues, folk and even techno

Daniel

[julie391]

good post

i agree with your hypothesis

[Daniel_piano]

I break all of the rules with Mozart. I over-romanticize it, and let me tell you, there is nothing wrong with that. If it fits the piece, by all means, I think pianists should be given the chance to experiment.

It disgusts me when people say that a certain pianist's interpretation is "not right".

They say that because they don't know nothing about music and those who composed it
In the accademic snobbery of the 80's (that is now fortunately fading) teachers judging composition work used to mark as error score where there were few notation or interpretation notation
They said that this is a sign of lack of professionality ad the esecutors can't know how do you want your own music to sound if you don't put an interpretation notation on each bar

What these teacher didn't realize in their snobbery is that all past composer always put very few notation and intepretation notation in their scores
That was for a simple reason that has been working from baroque till 60's, simple the composer want his piece to always sound different according to who play it
In fact in the classical and romantic period it was an "error" not to use your own personal intepretation to the piece
During baroque improvisation was required and expected in every piece from Bach to Scarlatti and it was considered an error not to improvize in baroque music durin an exam

Let's hope all this ignorance of the new schools, accedemies and teachers will fade completely soon so that we can back to study and creating music instead of shut the whole accademic music in a iron tower away from the "ignorant" world while destroying the meaning of music with accademic mannerism and phylological snobbis

If Mozart hadn't have been so worried about what the audiences of the time would think of his music, he probably would have written much differently. Just look at the introduction to his Dissonance String Quartet. It sounds like Schonberg! Atleast for that one time, he didn't care about what people would think, and composed what he wanted to compose.

I don't agree
If you read a good Mozart biography you will see there are a lot of letters of him to his father while he laments that sometimes what he want to compose is not what people want (he complaints about people disliking long adagio movements in his letters) but that he would never compose what people like but what he likes despite if it liked or not
In fact, the Concerto for Harp and Flute was order by a noble gentleman whoe daughter studies with Mozart
The person who order the concerto explain Mozart a lot about how he wanted this piece to sound but Mozart (writes in a letter) that he didn't liked that ideas and wanted to compose something completely different even though that would have made mad the orderer
So, Mozart was not a composer who composed what he didn't want to compose just to match people tastes, quite the contrary
I don't see what the deal is with Mozart using dissonances
There nothing strange, dissonances was non invented by Schonberg and they were widely used even in gregorian music
Dissonances was utilized as a tension to be resolved in tonality assonances and I think this is a far more effective utilize of dissonance than serialism
Surely Mozart would have never liked to hear or compose something similar to a Boulez piece so no, forget about him wanted to compose serial music but instead ended up to compose in a different style
Mozart composed what he wanted to compose
Even before becoming famous (because despite what the movie says he did was famous before dying) he composed in that style
So even when "what people think of my music" was not important or was not even in his thought he composed in his unique style that you can fin on his camera and symphonic music
But it has been showed by his letter to his father that Mozart didn't give a *** what people thought of his works, he composed them because that was what he wanted to compose and what he liked

Daniel

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Ugh.... Fixed. Well, it was late....

Ludwig Van RACHABJI