How far can a pianist go without a sonata in the repertoire?

[ladytoni]

Hi,
When I studied piano performance in college my piano teacher felt that I should become a concert artist.  I opted to marry and have a family but I now rethinking that.  How far can I go realistically without a sonata?

[thalbergmad]

Without a sonata, not very far. I would expect that even minor competitions/auditions require one.

Do you not like them or something??

Thal

[stravinskylover]

You might be able to go on without a romantic or twentieth century sonata (although this isn't recommended), but you would definitely need a classical sonata. Almost every piano competition I've ever entered required a classical sonata. Why do you ask?

[visitor]

depends on what your definition of 'far' is. As a stage performer it would be pretty difficult, especially as concertos are for the most part, in grossly simple terms, large scale sonatas for piano and orchestra. Navigating those beasts is supremely difficult if you do not understand the form and have little experience with tying broad musical ideas across big / extended works.

[cabbynum]

Without a sonata, not very far. I would expect that even minor competitions/auditions require one.

Do you not like them or something??

Thal

My question, how can you not like a sonata? They are wonderful, to over simplify it and modernize it. They are almost like a TV miniseries. 3 or 4 episodes long, they tell a story with lots of contrast but there is an overall tie between everything in it.Sonatas are fantastic, you can also learn buckets of information from just studying one sonata.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I haven't even heard of a performance major by having a sonata under their belt.

[pianoman53]

but... how can you not play a sonata? It's not like "Can I be successful without plays the complete bird collection by Messiaen?", but about sonatas. Every great composer wrote sonatas. You can't go through any period without playing sonatas...

[j_menz]

Every great composer wrote sonatas.

JS Bach, Pachelbel, Handel, Vaughan Williams, Britten.........

As a side note, First Post + Really Stupid Question = Troll.

[outin]

My question, how can you not like a sonata? They are wonderful, to over simplify it and modernize it. They are almost like a TV miniseries. 3 or 4 episodes long, they tell a story with lots of contrast but there is an overall tie between everything in it.Sonatas are fantastic, you can also learn buckets of information from just studying one sonata.

Who likes miniseries? I much prefer movies. I guess you just explained why I don't like classical sonatas

[cabbynum]

Who likes miniseries? I much prefer movies. I guess you just explained why I don't like classical sonatas

Okay a trilogy or a series
I guess a series would be more like Chopin op.10 and 25

I take it back actually a good example of mini series would be beethoven op.31

Anyway you got my point. I think... If not oh well. Haha

[outin]

Okay a trilogy or a series
I guess a series would be more like Chopin op.10 and 25

I take it back actually a good example of mini series would be beethoven op.31

Anyway you got my point. I think... If not oh well. Haha

I did get your point and will stay away from Beethoven op 31 

Chopin op 10 or 25 would be like a detective series without a continuing plot, much more to my taste really 

[cabbynum]

I did get your point and will stay away from Beethoven op 31 

Chopin op 10 or 25 would be like a detective series without a continuing plot, much more to my taste really 

Have you ever watched the show Psych?

[outin]

Have you ever watched the show Psych?

Nope...

[j_menz]

Chopin op 10 or 25 would be like a detective series without a continuing plot, much more to my taste really 

So would the WTC, just sayin' 

[cabbynum]

Nope...

Take a look at it


J_menz

I agree and disagree but can't put my finger on a good modern day example

[outin]

Take a look at it


J_menz

I agree and disagree but can't put my finger on a good modern day example

Don't think it's available around here...

[outin]

So would the WTC, just sayin' 

Some scripts are just more enjoyable than others

[j_menz]

J_menz

I agree and disagree but can't put my finger on a good modern day example

The Shostakovich P&Fs, or the Kapustin, for starters?

[cabbynum]

The Shostakovich P&Fs, or the Kapustin, for starters?

HAHA!
Half the jokes I see on here I will almost never get to use. Sadly.

[pianoman53]

JS Bach, Pachelbel, Handel, Vaughan Williams, Britten.........

As a side note, First Post + Really Stupid Question = Troll.

Bach wrote sonatas? Quite sure they other did too, even if they were never published.

[ignaceii]

Strange question. The sonata form is the landmark for every classical piece. I myself only play sonatas, or parts.
I think perhaps there are technical issues here, or enduration... but anyway, marry and get children if you are not prepared for the serious work, or become a jazz, or minimalistic pianist.

Best of luck.

[j_menz]

Bach wrote sonatas? Quite sure they other did too, even if they were never published.

Bach didn't, and nor did the others. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it!

We're talking keyboard sonatas, btw.

[cabbynum]

Don't think it's available around here...

Netflix
Or other internet tv sites
You can get it

[outin]

Netflix
Or other internet tv sites
You can get it

Not interested enough and most new US TV series kind of suck... I'd rather spend the time with my piano

BTW. In case you didn't know, not all programs can be downloaded even with pay via the internet if you're at the wrong area. A copyright thing, just like the stupid area codes on DVDs...

[pianoman1800]

Bach didn't, and nor did the others. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it!

We're talking keyboard sonatas, btw.

Bach actually wrote a sonata for keyboard sonata, the sonata in D major BWV963. There is also the d minor sonata BWV964, which is a wonderful arrangement by the composer himself from his Violin sonata in a minor BWV1003

[outin]

Bach actually wrote a sonata for keyboard sonata...

I prefer composers who wrote their music for people...

[j_menz]

Bach actually wrote a sonata for keyboard sonata, the sonata in D major BWV963. There is also the d minor sonata BWV964, which is a wonderful arrangement by the composer himself from his Violin sonata in a minor BWV1003

Hmm... turns out he wrote four BWV 963-966 (and an additional four individual sonata movements (967-970)).

How on earth did I not know this? 

[thorn]

As an isolated pianist sat in a room in your house playing whatever you like, as far as you like.

As a pianist in society/the Classical world/etc. you wouldn't even be considered to have taken a single step.

Of course I mean a Classical Sonata. There are probably concert performers who have enjoyed a healthy career without ever having to touch a later Sonata (though I imagine every aspiring pianist has butchered a few pages of the Liszt Sonata in their time- I have certainly done so myself  )

Is anyone familiar with Bourdieu? He always comes to mind when people talk to me about what music is and isn't "necessary" to know of/play.

[j_menz]

Is anyone familiar with Bourdieu?

The French sociologist/intellectual who basically dressed Nancy Mitford's U and Non U into a body of academic wankery?

[visitor]

I have pretty horrible sonata mileage, I can only go about .8757 miles between sonata I'll ups, I am not pro though I think a pro can do 4.96 miles easily without a sonata before he needs one.

[j_menz]

Looking at my music shelves, I can go two whole composers before I hit one. 

[outin]

Is anyone familiar with Bourdieu?

I had almost managed to forget about him, but you just had to remind me 

[quantum]

Bach BWV 525-530. 

Given they are for organ, but they are keyboard sonatas nonetheless. 

[pianoman53]

Hmm... turns out he wrote four BWV 963-966 (and an additional four individual sonata movements (967-970)).

How on earth did I not know this? 

Ooops...

Vivaldi wrote keyboard concertos, which is basically a sonata with orchestra.

And as I wrote; They might have written without publishing them. Do you actually think you can complete a full study in composition, in the royal college in London (and be a pianist) without writing a sonata?
(The one I'm taking about wrote a sonatina btw)

[j_menz]

Vivaldi wrote keyboard concertos, which is basically a sonata with orchestra.

A concerto is not generally regarded as a Sonata. Surely the definition is broad enough already. 

And as I wrote; They might have written without publishing them. Do you actually think you can complete a full study in composition, in the royal college in London (and be a pianist) without writing a sonata?
(The one I'm taking about wrote a sonatina btw)

I don't know what their requirements are, or what individuals may have done as discarded juvenilia. But in the absence of evidence, idle speculation on your part (or anyone else's) is not more than that.