Brahms 51 exercises. nr 3 awkward fingering.

[ignaceii]

Hello,
In the wiener urtext edition, I have in the first bar 54 and 53 for 1st and 2nd note. Equally in the left hand, 12 and 13
That means gliding 5, and 1. I'd prefer 54, 42, 31, 24, 13,.... Equally in the 2nd, in order to sustain legato.
The gliding feels always strange, can turn out bad, quirky,...

Does someone agree, or have other fingerings from other editions.

[outin]

The fingerings in your edition are by Brahms and the fingering is part of the exercise. To teach you different techniques. So I would not change them lightly. I've only done some of the easier ones, and they sure can feel awkward at first. That just means you need to work on it

Also these exercises are quite difficult...If you didn't yet, read the introductory notes as well. You will get some idea what you are getting into.

[ignaceii]

Thanks,
Don't worry,  I played much of the book through. Not everything, but enough.
I like them very much, so I pick them up again after quite some time. Curious what he has to say Brahms.

[liszt1022]

This exists-
https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Works-9-J-Brahms/dp/B00000148K/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1393518143&sr=8-4

I have on when working on projects.

Yes, the fingerings are part of the exercise.

[ignaceii]

Thanks Liszt.
Special, that he does not include scalepassages, it's especially geard towards long spreads. Is the ability of playing the same exercise in different keys (I speak dutch I mean in 1 of 24 scales major and minor) important, as I am largely autodidact with years of private courses but no real theory or harmony.
So, harmony is quite a subject I should try to learn.
So I play the 51 as they are scored. Could try some to modulate in say c minor, but it will be difficult.

[chrisbutch]

Yes, the main point of many (perhaps most) of the 51 is to learn to manage familiar figuration with unfamiliar, often awkward fingering. A lot of the value therefore disappears if you ignore Brahms's fingering.

[ignaceii]

Yes, the main point of many (perhaps most) of the 51 is to learn to manage familiar figuration with unfamiliar, often awkward fingering. A lot of the value therefore disappears if you ignore Brahms's fingering.

So, the best thing is to ignore, as I did in ex. 3 ?

[liszt1022]

Mind the fingerings. What you have quoted suggests the same.

[chrisbutch]

So, the best thing is to ignore, as I did in ex. 3 ?

On the contrary, I was recommending that you shouldn't ignore Brahms' fingering, and that these exdercises lose much of their value if you do.

[skryabyn]

Notice it's not legato. The only tied notes are the bottom notes of each hand at the end of each measure for the first half (ascending), and the top notes when descending.

[ignaceii]

Did Brahms have something in mind with these fingerings. I fhink Debussy said "take the fingerings that suit you best ".
So if they are part of the exrecise, what is that part then, to play easy things difficult.
I'll call Doctor Brahms and ask him.

[stravinskylover]

Did Brahms have something in mind with these fingerings? I think Debussy said, "take the fingerings that suit you best ".
So if they are part of the exercise, what is the point then? To make easy things difficult?
I'll call Doctor Brahms and ask him.

Fixed (I think)! Sorry, it was driving me crazy.

[liszt1022]

Did Brahms have something in mind with these fingerings. I think Debussy said "take the fingerings that suit you best."
So if they are part of the exercise, what is that point then - to make easy things difficult?
I'll call Doctor Brahms and ask him.

Perhaps you don't need to understand it in order to respect it. It looks to me like Exercise 3 is about finding balance and good angles of attack. In any case, do your best with Brahms's fingering or you're not actually learning what he's trying to teach.
Think about actual excercise - "You ran a marathon? It's easier to drive 26 miles." Yes, but that's missing the point of actually doing the exercise.

[g_s_223]

My understanding is that Brahms created these Exercises as an aid to those wishing to play his piano music, which often used fingerings not commonly seen previously: e.g. arpeggios involving the whole hand 1-2-4-5-1-2-4-5.

So, it could be argued that if you aren't deeply into Brahms then you don't really need to get into these Exercises. However some of the fingering ideas reappear in later complex piano music, e.g. Prokofiev.

[ignaceii]

That is reveiling. Brahms wrote the exercises for his own music. Don't think so.
They serve a certain purpose yes, ok, let's try it then.
I think C. Zacharias was asked if he still studies, also technically. He mentioned the 51.
I don't have anything on Brahms by Zacharias.