Changes in method within the past year.

[nick]

I know many of us daily are working to perfect our piece/pieces, and wonder if others have through experimentation, literature, instruction or a combination, changed their practice method within the past year and would share their insights.

My experience has been as follow: ( all practice working on weak passages)

1. all slow practice- Forte, after months, did nothing for increasing performance tempo.
2. smaller segments, HS at "1 1/2 times performance goal", increasing segment length over time- didn't like the sound, too light, not loud enough with keys not going to key bottom.
3. increasing speed gradually, perfect and forte- after reaching a certain speed, repeating the passage created tension and reduced performance perfection.
4. Medium speed- forte, playing at performance speed only once per practice session or less.
 

The last method is currently what has given me the best results. I wonder if others have had the same/different results.

Nick

[xvimbi]

I have a couple of comments/questions (as usual)

My experience has been as follow: ( all practice working on weak passages)

1. all slow practice- Forte, after months, did nothing for increasing performance tempo.

That's like saying "I've been walking for months, but it hasn't done anything for my sprinting abilities". Well, did the slow play do something for your accuracy, memorization abilities, etc.?

2. smaller segments, HS at "1 1/2 times performance goal", increasing segment length over time- didn't like the sound, too light, not loud enough with keys not going to key bottom.

Sound is not the issue with this practice technique. Did this one help you identify tense movements and correct them? Did it improve your technical handling of these passages? Did it help with your hand memory?

3. increasing speed gradually, perfect and forte- after reaching a certain speed, repeating the passage created tension and reduced performance perfection.

Why forte? Why tension? With constant technique, slowly increasing the speed is THE method for working on getting rid of tension. Either the movements are not worked out correctly (see points above), or you may have missed that certain passages require different techniques at different speeds, yet you applied the slow technique while attempting to play fast.

4. Medium speed- forte, playing at performance speed only once per practice session or less.

The last method is currently what has given me the best results. I wonder if others have had the same/different results.

Please define "results". Everything hinges on what you define as your goals.

It seems to me you are still looking for the magic bullet practice approach. I firmly believe there is no such thing. All the approaches you have mentioned, plus a dozen additional ones, all have their merits for different aspects of the game. Used correctly, they all improve one's playing. Used incorrectly, they will all deteriorate one's playing. The trick is to know when certain methods are applicable and when not, i.e. what aspect is being targeted.

[mound]

I've found that once all the notes are memorized, you've done the "speed first" stuff to make sure you're working on the right motions etc.. etc..  that then playing very slowly, with my eyes closed (fixing the flubs as they come and repeating until I can play the entire piece, slowly, with my eyes closed) has helped with accuracy and reducing tension.

[Bob]

Interesting thread.  What NOT to do.  A lot of the threads are advice on what to do.  I haven't seen many discussing what doesn't work and what to avoid or watch out for.

[nick]

I have a couple of comments/questions (as usual)

My experience has been as follow: ( all practice working on weak passages)

1. all slow practice- Forte, after months, did nothing for increasing performance tempo.

That's like saying "I've been walking for months, but it hasn't done anything for my sprinting abilities". Well, did the slow play do something for your accuracy, memorization abilities, etc.?

2. smaller segments, HS at "1 1/2 times performance goal", increasing segment length over time- didn't like the sound, too light, not loud enough with keys not going to key bottom.

Sound is not the issue with this practice technique. Did this one help you identify tense movements and correct them? Did it improve your technical handling of these passages? Did it help with your hand memory?

3. increasing speed gradually, perfect and forte- after reaching a certain speed, repeating the passage created tension and reduced performance perfection.

Why forte? Why tension? With constant technique, slowly increasing the speed is THE method for working on getting rid of tension. Either the movements are not worked out correctly (see points above), or you may have missed that certain passages require different techniques at different speeds, yet you applied the slow technique while attempting to play fast.

4. Medium speed- forte, playing at performance speed only once per practice session or less.

The last method is currently what has given me the best results. I wonder if others have had the same/different results.

Please define "results". Everything hinges on what you define as your goals.

It seems to me you are still looking for the magic bullet practice approach. I firmly believe there is no such thing. All the approaches you have mentioned, plus a dozen additional ones, all have their merits for different aspects of the game. Used correctly, they all improve one's playing. Used incorrectly, they will all deteriorate one's playing. The trick is to know when certain methods are applicable and when not, i.e. what aspect is being targeted.

First Xvimbi, your comments look very clear where you have the quote for different lines of mine. Please tell me how you do this, as I can only quote the whole passage.

Now, I really asked the question if others have changed their practice methods in the past year, and could they share what they were, as I shared mine. However, here are the answers to your questions/comments.

1. The slow practice was after notes were totally memorized and accurate.

2. HS 1 1/2 x's performance tempo didn't help with hand memory since already memorized well. Can't imagine practicing without sound being important.

3. Forte practice I first tried after hearing about other concert pianist's practicing this way, and it really makes playing with less volume easier.  After gradually reaching a certain speed, repetition of that speed caused tension in my experience.

4. 'best results' to me meant I have achieved  to play the piece the fastest, perfect, even, and most clear.

No 'majic bullet' in mind here. I look at this pursuit for perfection like an eye exam: which is better, a or b. It has taken me a long time to come to the point I am now, lots of ' a or b's '.

 Nick

[xvimbi]

First Xvimbi, your comments look very clear where you have the quote for different lines of mine. Please tell me how you do this, as I can only quote the whole passage.

When you quote a post, you will see that the quoted text is bracketed by [_quote] and [/_quote] tags. As you can see, the underscore is not part of the tags. I had to include it so that this sentence gets rendered in a normal way and doesn't show up as a quote.

So, you can take any sentence and surround it with these tags, and it's a quote.

As to your other remarks: fair enough!

[nick]

First Xvimbi, your comments look very clear where you have the quote for different lines of mine. Please tell me how you do this, as I can only quote the whole passage.

  When you quote a post, you will see that the quoted text is bracketed by [_quote] and [/_quote] tags. As you can see, the underscore is not part of the tags. I had to include it so that this sentence gets rendered in a normal way and doesn't show up as a quote.

So, you can take any sentence and surround it with these tags, and it's a quote.

As to your other remarks: fair enough!

Thanks
Nick

[bernhard]

Now, I really asked the question if others have changed their practice methods in the past year, and could they share what they were, as I shared mine.

I have, over the years made many dramatic changes to the ways I was taught to practise. In most occasions the changes came about due to external circumstances that had nothing to do with the piano, and which forced me to practise in a different way.

In a few cases they came about because I heard about them (either from other pianists or from reading), I tried them out, found out that they worked better and adopted them.

If I had to select the three most important in terms of their staggering consequences, these would be the ones I would choose:

1.   Practise in small segments, sometimes as short as 10 – 15 minutes. I used to practise for hours on end. Yet my playing was completely mediocre in spite of the heavy investment in time. Then, due to some unforeseen events, I was not able to practise for more than a few minutes uninterrupted. So instead of practising for three-four hours solid, now I was forced to do several 10 –15 minute sessions a day. In the beginning I panicked and fretted. And yet, as the weeks passed, something remarkable happened: not only such small sessions were not having any of the devastating effects I believed they would, as my playing started to improve perceptibly. This was many, many years ago. Since then I have never put more than 30 – 40 minutes of practice (at the piano) in one single session. My playing – rather than suffering – improved enormously. And there are days in which I do not play at all, without any perceivable consequences.

2.   Practise the music, not the playing. The obsession with speed, bravura feats of piano athleticism and so on are well known within the forum. However if you let your technique be dictated by the musical requirements of the piece, you will find out (like I did) that the playing improves astonishingly.

3.   Do not skip steps, do not look for shortcuts. I really got to grips with this one as a result of teaching. Teaching forces you to go step-by-step over the same piece repeatedly with each student. I started noticing that the pieces I taught were the ones I really excelled at. An honest comparison between these pieces and the ones I was working on by myself showed that I was skipping a lot of steps and cutting a lot of corners on my pieces, while with the ones I was teaching, the teaching situation basically forced me into the proper discipline. Since this realisation (many years ago), I have incorporated this into my practice routine, which basically means that after learning a piece, I learn it again from scratch step by step. By the third-fourth learning, the piece is so thoroughly ingrained that even if I stop playing it for a couple of years I can still play it perfectly.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[dmk]

3.   Do not skip steps, do not look for shortcuts. I really got to grips with this one as a result of teaching. Teaching forces you to go step-by-step over the same piece repeatedly with each student. I started noticing that the pieces I taught were the ones I really excelled at. An honest comparison between these pieces and the ones I was working on by myself showed that I was skipping a lot of steps and cutting a lot of corners on my pieces, while with the ones I was teaching, the teaching situation basically forced me into the proper discipline. Since this realisation (many years ago), I have incorporated this into my practice routine, which basically means that after learning a piece, I learn it again from scratch step by step. By the third-fourth learning, the piece is so thoroughly ingrained that even if I stop playing it for a couple of years I can still play it perfectly.

Again I have to agree with Bernhard.   My own piano playing has really improved since I started teaching.  It has taught me great deal about practice and what it means to practice effectively .  I started to notice that I knew my students pieces better than my own...why??  Because after selecting them I sat down myself and learnt them.  In particular in picked out the difficult sections and then deconstructed them till I realised the point of difficulty so I could work on this with my student from the outset.  If you are disciplined enough to do this with works of students you become disciplined enough with pieces which you are working on.

[xvimbi]

Again I have to agree with Bernhard.   My own piano playing has really improved since I started teaching.  It has taught me great deal about practice and what it means to practice effectively .  I started to notice that I knew my students pieces better than my own...why??  Because after selecting them I sat down myself and learnt them.  In particular in picked out the difficult sections and then deconstructed them till I realised the point of difficulty so I could work on this with my student from the outset.  If you are disciplined enough to do this with works of students you become disciplined enough with pieces which you are working on.

Along these lines: We all know the good advice that one should play during practice as if a master or a big audience were listening. This doesn't work for me. However, what I found to work quite well is to pretend to be teaching to someone. I do not teach the piano myself professionally, so I do indeed have to pretend, but I do teach in other areas, so I am well aware of its benefits. This approach works for all kinds of activities, in my case particularly also for cooking: I always rush things and never take the time to set up things properly (mis-en-place). As a result, I always get into jams (not the sweet ones). Those are the "shortcuts" everyone is talking about. To remedy that, I pretend that there is someone around who I am teaching whatever I am doing at that moment, which makes me do things the proper way.

So, instead of pretending there is an audience, pretend there is a pupil.

[richard w]

...after learning a piece, I learn it again from scratch step by step. By the third-fourth learning, the piece is so thoroughly ingrained that even if I stop playing it for a couple of years I can still play it perfectly.

Hi Bernhard, please clarify what you mean by 'learn it again'. Presumably, you have not forgotten the piece from the first learning before you embark on the second. Therefore, are you saying that you start again as if the piece were completely new, even though you really already know it?

Thanks.


Richard.

[bernhard]

Hi Bernhard, please clarify what you mean by 'learn it again'. Presumably, you have not forgotten the piece from the first learning before you embark on the second. Therefore, are you saying that you start again as if the piece were completely new, even though you really already know it?

Thanks.


Richard.

Exactly. Regard the piece as a completely new piece, as if you have never seen it before, even though you may already know it.

Of course, the second time around it will take a fraction of a time to “relearn” it, since a lot of investigative/experimental work will already have been done the first time round.

But – and this is a very powerful strategy – you can “forget” the piece as well, by purposefully neglecting it for 5 or 6 months, and then relearning it again. If you do this cycle of learning-forgetting relearning 4 – 6 times, by the 6th time you will never forget it again, even if you do not play it for 30 years.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

So, instead of pretending there is an audience, pretend there is a pupil.

That is an excellent idea!

[nick]

I have, over the years made many dramatic changes to the ways I was taught to practise. In most occasions the changes came about due to external circumstances that had nothing to do with the piano, and which forced me to practise in a different way.

In a few cases they came about because I heard about them (either from other pianists or from reading), I tried them out, found out that they worked better and adopted them.

If I had to select the three most important in terms of their staggering consequences, these would be the ones I would choose:

1.   Practise in small segments, sometimes as short as 10 – 15 minutes. I used to practise for hours on end. Yet my playing was completely mediocre in spite of the heavy investment in time. Then, due to some unforeseen events, I was not able to practise for more than a few minutes uninterrupted. So instead of practising for three-four hours solid, now I was forced to do several 10 –15 minute sessions a day. In the beginning I panicked and fretted. And yet, as the weeks passed, something remarkable happened: not only such small sessions were not having any of the devastating effects I believed they would, as my playing started to improve perceptibly. This was many, many years ago. Since then I have never put more than 30 – 40 minutes of practice (at the piano) in one single session. My playing – rather than suffering – improved enormously. And there are days in which I do not play at all, without any perceivable consequences.

2.   Practise the music, not the playing. The obsession with speed, bravura feats of piano athleticism and so on are well known within the forum. However if you let your technique be dictated by the musical requirements of the piece, you will find out (like I did) that the playing improves astonishingly.

3.   Do not skip steps, do not look for shortcuts. I really got to grips with this one as a result of teaching. Teaching forces you to go step-by-step over the same piece repeatedly with each student. I started noticing that the pieces I taught were the ones I really excelled at. An honest comparison between these pieces and the ones I was working on by myself showed that I was skipping a lot of steps and cutting a lot of corners on my pieces, while with the ones I was teaching, the teaching situation basically forced me into the proper discipline. Since this realisation (many years ago), I have incorporated this into my practice routine, which basically means that after learning a piece, I learn it again from scratch step by step. By the third-fourth learning, the piece is so thoroughly ingrained that even if I stop playing it for a couple of years I can still play it perfectly.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

That is good you found successful ways to improve Bernhard. Thanks for sharing those thoughts. I like hearing about others experience.

Nick