Am I Advanced?

[kekepania]

I'm in second grade piano and I've been playing for a little over a year. My teacher suggested that I started playing Chopin's "Raindrop" Prelude and his Waltz in A minor (or was it major? I forgot.) Anyway, I am able to choose songs, too. The first piece I chose to learn when I began playing was the first movement of Moonlight Sonata. Then, over summer I learnt Chopin's Nocturne in C# Minor and I just recently finished the "Raindrop" Prelude and Nocturne in B flat Op.9 No.1. My teacher now wants me to learn the Nocturne Op.9 No.2 but I'm not sure if I'm able to just yet, so I chose an easier one, Nocturne Op. 72 No.1. I'm wondering if I'm considered 'advanced' because my teacher keeps saying I am but I have a lot of trouble reading sheet music, so I'm thinking I can't be that ahead if I can't read music well. My teacher and my family tells me that I can play with feeling but I'm just working on dynamics? I can't tell what really makes a student advanced or not.

[kekepania]

I accidently posted this twice, my apologies.

[liszt85]

I'm in second grade piano and I've been playing for a little over a year. My teacher suggested that I started playing Chopin's "Raindrop" Prelude and his Waltz in A minor (or was it major? I forgot.) Anyway, I am able to choose songs, too. The first piece I chose to learn when I began playing was the first movement of Moonlight Sonata. Then, over summer I learnt Chopin's Nocturne in C# Minor and I just recently finished the "Raindrop" Prelude and Nocturne in B flat Op.9 No.1. My teacher now wants me to learn the Nocturne Op.9 No.2 but I'm not sure if I'm able to just yet, so I chose an easier one, Nocturne Op. 72 No.1. I'm wondering if I'm considered 'advanced' because my teacher keeps saying I am but I have a lot of trouble reading sheet music, so I'm thinking I can't be that ahead if I can't read music well. My teacher and my family tells me that I can play with feeling but I'm just working on dynamics? I can't tell what really makes a student advanced or not.

No, you are not advanced. To be considered advance, you'll need a much deeper understanding of music, of music theory, of music history, and of general issues in piano playing. That takes years. Your teacher may be using these words to encourage you but know in your heart that you have a long way to go before you can call yourself advanced.

Finally, you'd be much better off if you simply enjoyed the ride and if you didn't worry about labels and definitions of things such as "advanced" or "intermediate". Those are meaningless anyway. What I told you simply was my conception of "advanced". For someone else, simply being able to play Fur Elise might be "advanced enough". So you shouldn't worry about such things.

[ryankmfdm]

 Everything stated in the above post is true. Additionally, if you have to ask, then you aren't.

[pianoplayer51]

Everything stated in the above post is true. Additionally, if you have to ask, then you aren't.

I agree. To me, advanced means being able to fluently read music at a high level and know all there is to know about music theory, and to know how to use the pedal when there are no pedal markings in the score.

[ranniks]

Do a Bach invention......They really do train your technical side.

Errr. I've been playing 1.6 years now. I can do some grade 4-5 stuff, and a maybe grade 6 something. I progress well if I play for at least 7 hours a week.

But I wouldn't call myself advanced, even if I did the fancy chopin prelude/e major in 6 months or a year from now.

Piano is just.....Magical and different. Like sometimes, and this is because of the Bach that I've been doing, I can totally feel my left hand alive! It gives me such an amazing feeling. But oh no! The right hand is now emotionless, better polish that too.

Piano is just an amazing instrument.

I'll call myself 'advanced' when I've played for at least 10 years and have played for 3-7 hours a week.

For now I'll keep practising.

[mjedwards]

     I just joined this forum recently after finding various interesting topics discussed.
     I have no idea whether I'm "advanced" or not, and don't worry much about it.  I am not professional, so I can just play what I feel like, when I feel like it.
     I think there would be many ways of defining "advanced" (if it's a black-and-white, yes-or-no category anyway), and my path has been so non-standard since I left school (which was in 1970) that I would probably confound any pre-determined concept of what "advanced" means.
     I say don't worry about it, but just continue as you feel like it.  If you wish to work towards being a serious professional, perhaps you can't be quite as casual as "as you feel like it" - but I would just work ahead nonetheless as you are ready, and not worry exactly where you are right now.
     But I might comment that any piano student who, after only a year or two, can play pieces like the Chopin ones you mentioned strikes me as uncommonly talented - regardless of whether or not they meet other criteria of "advanced", such as fluency in reading music, knowing how to use the pedal when this is not notated, etc.  (For that matter, when the pedal *is* notated, it often strikes me as a very ineffective use anyway, if taken literally.)
     If I recall correctly, it took me more than that year-and-a-bit you mention even to get onto the Kuhlau Sonatinas and such things that piano students commonly learn.  I mean - a little over one year and you could already play the Chopin Op. 9, no. 1 - or Op. 72, no. 1?  Seems remarkable to me at such an early stage - unless I'm badly out of touch with what early-year students can do.
     But again, I wouldn't get hung up on how advanced other people judge you to be.

Regards, Michael.

[dub_pianist]

In general I would trust your teacher because she/he listens to you at least once a week for some particular time; judging your playing from a list of pieces that you are studying is a bit difficult in my opinion.

If you can learn that fast you are probably talented and you are advanced compared to other people studying in the same grade as you, that does not get a you diploma though; the learning process is different for everyone and while some people might be comfortable at the beginning, there will be some setbacks in the future (not because of you, just because it happens to everyone), you must continue to study regardless of whether you or other people think you are advanced or not.

Try to find what you are not doing well and try to improve that, for example sight reading; unfortunately mastering any skill takes a lot of time time so a couple of years are probably not enough; but in any case always trust your teacher's judgement for the aforementioned reasons

[stillofthenight]

If someone is an advanced player as in technical abilities, are they usually able to compose original pieces to their liking? I would assume after becoming an "advanced player" you would have to have quite an excellent ear and command of many aspects of music and be able to compose original satisfactory pieces, or maybe even add a little improv to the master's works?

[mjedwards]

     No - I think the ability, or desire, to compose music is quite a separate thing.  There are plenty of advanced pianists who apparently have no desire to compose music (and maybe no or little ability to).  It is highly questionable whether I am an advanced pianist - it would depend on how you define that, I suppose - but I had a very strong, all-consuming desire to compose from about the age of 10 or 11.  Again, I question whether I have much talent for it - but I have occasionally come up with things that persuade me that maybe I do have quite a bit of talent, although, for various reasons I won't go into now, I have not often been able to make full use of it.  Long story - but I think the two things are quite different, and may co-exist in the one musician, or just one or the other may be present.
     I also believe that composers have a fundamentally different way of thinking about music as a whole to non-composers, however great a performer the latter may be.  My aunt is a pianist, and former timpanist, and very knowledgeable about music, but without an iota of desire to compose (except for a couple of very short, simple pieces she wrote in her student years), and it is abundantly obvious, in a hundred different ways, every time I talk about anything musical with her, that she and I think about music in very different ways.

Regards, Michael.

[pianoplayer51]

     No - I think the ability, or desire, to compose music is quite a separate thing.  There are plenty of advanced pianists who apparently have no desire to compose music (and maybe no or little ability to).  It is highly questionable whether I am an advanced pianist - it would depend on how you define that, I suppose - but I had a very strong, all-consuming desire to compose from about the age of 10 or 11.  Again, I question whether I have much talent for it - but I have occasionally come up with things that persuade me that maybe I do have quite a bit of talent, although, for various reasons I won't go into now, I have not often been able to make full use of it.  Long story - but I think the two things are quite different, and may co-exist in the one musician, or just one or the other may be present.
     I also believe that composers have a fundamentally different way of thinking about music as a whole to non-composers, however great a performer the latter may be.  My aunt is a pianist, and former timpanist, and very knowledgeable about music, but without an iota of desire to compose (except for a couple of very short, simple pieces she wrote in her student years), and it is abundantly obvious, in a hundred different ways, every time I talk about anything musical with her, that she and I think about music in very different ways.

Regards, Michael.

Pianist Helene Grimaud who was a child prodgidy cannot compose music (she said so) yet she is advanced.   

[1piano4joe]

Maybe, Maybe not. We don't no anything about your background.

I will therefore discuss others who have been playing a year and what it means to even be intermediate.

Many students who have studied only a year don't know all the scales. If someone doesn't know all 12 major scales and all 36 minor scales then not only are they not advanced but not even an intermediate. All chords, arpeggios and their inversions are assumed at an intermediate level as well as cadences.

Finger staccato, wrist staccato, forearm staccato and wrist rotation as well as many other movements should either be second nature to an intermediate or are at least being studied.

Books will have been read and studied. One should be familiar with Fink, Chang, Sandor and Bernhard.

Firm practice habits are long since established. Dropping notes, blocking and hands separate are just some of the tools in an intermediates magic bag of tricks.

Intermediates analyze pieces and can determine fingering and pedaling when there is none.

I am only an intermediate, playing well over 10 years and don't play Chopin's nocturnes or the Raindrop prelude. However, as a late intermediate, they are probably not that much of a stretch. I know exactly what makes them difficult. If one doesn't know where or why a piece is difficult then they are not ready for it.  

Composing, improvising, excellent sight reading and a good ear are NOT imo necessary to be considered advanced.

Also, it's not the difficulty of the pieces you play but how you play them. So, yes, while some of the pieces mentioned are early advanced, it doesn't necessarily mean they will sound all that great.

Finally, as an intermediate, I find I can play easy pieces, relatively effortlessly and quite beautifully. Intermediate pieces tend to require much more effort and learning/practicing time and analysis. They sound more or less okay. Advanced pieces can be either impossible or extremely demanding and I personally haven't successfully studied anything that takes a year to a lifetime to learn. These don't sound okay. Wrong notes, bad interpretations, and most frequently not being able to play them up to speed are just some of the difficulties. Sometimes I don't even know how some pieces are even humanly possible.

Just my two cents worth, Joe.

[pianoplayer51]

I agree